View Full Version : MONTHLY Savings
meatpile
09-20-06, 09:41 AM
I wanted to post a poll about how much people save MONTHLY, or can save but choose not to beyond their monthly cost of living expenses - if they can afford to save at all.
These refer to the entire household and also retirement plans, so if you and your spouse have retirement money deducted, that counts. Include non-retirement savings as well.
Does this include any 401 K pretax contributions? Or just on your own savings?
meatpile
09-20-06, 10:04 AM
Does this include any 401 K pretax contributions?
Did you read my freakin' post?
:notworthy
Sorry. I save through work and through stock dividend re-investment accounts, old 401ks that I have rolled, and mutual funds. I have one stock that pays a cash dividend that goes into a bond account.
But I don't take X amount out of my paycheck in, say, cash and make contributions to a savings account or other vehicle.
Where would items charged fall? I generally count that as a saving because you dont pay it until later but some may not count it because it eventully gets paid.
meatpile
09-20-06, 06:12 PM
Where would items charged fall? I generally count that as a saving because you dont pay it until later but some may not count it because it eventully gets paid.
Do you mean debt?
chipshot
09-20-06, 06:13 PM
Before I left BofA I would say 2 - 5K. But I've been lazy to get my 401K set up again. Now 1-2K
slydevl
09-20-06, 06:14 PM
Do you mean debt?
What about equity? I pay about $500 in principal each month. Its stuck in the house but I still consider it saving.
Do you mean debt?
No, its not a debt until you pay the bill. Before that you have the item and you have not paid for it so it is savings.
What about equity? I pay about $500 in principal each month. Its stuck in the house but I still consider it saving.
Thats a lot like I was saying.
I do 6% to my retirement plan at work. They match it dollar for dollar up to that amount. I also pay principal on my house each month.
meatpile
09-20-06, 06:44 PM
What about equity? I pay about $500 in principal each month. Its stuck in the house but I still consider it saving.
I don't consider that as savings - but whatever.
Liquidity and retirement.
Slope - If you owe money for something, it's debt right?
I'm talkking about investments. I don't consider a primary residence an investment - but that's a whole other subject.
meatpile
09-20-06, 06:51 PM
No, its not a debt until you pay the bill. Before that you have the item and you have not paid for it so it is savings.
Isn't it debt before you pay the bill, and NOT debt when you pay it? As in 'I paid off my debt?'
:confused:
Oh, it's SWEET to be back in the two-income category again, and to see MSFT swing $4+ in the last month or so...
We'd be up a notch in the poll tier, but I'm somewhat in the Sly category - I'm paying off house debt fast, just cuz it makes me feel safer. $1400 per month in principal... But with payroll deductions at 15% into Employee Stock (which buys at a substantial discount, so it's a guaranteed profit), 10% into 401(k) with 3% match, and IRA contributions, plus a pension plan for the teacher in the family, I feel just fine.
WORD!
I'm talkking about investments. I don't consider a primary residence an investment - but that's a whole other subject.
So to make this a fair comparison, since you're adding $1500 or so to your investment pool by doing interest only on your non-investment primary residence, we should talk net worth growth per month... And I should get to count option value growth :).
I try to save enough to pay my rent.
meatpile
09-20-06, 08:24 PM
Man - try to make a simple poll......
meatpile
09-20-06, 08:26 PM
So to make this a fair comparison, since you're adding $1500 or so to your investment pool by doing interest only on your non-investment primary residence
It's only $600.....
I'm just trying to guage what people put away each month. Not how much people are worth or how their investments perform.
I'm really not trying to compare anything except to see what people save, or not, of their monthly cashflow towards the future. For my vote, I included the checks I write to Vanguard every month. That's all.
DAYUM.
law1ng2b2
09-20-06, 08:29 PM
But with payroll deductions at 15% into Employee Stock (which buys at a substantial discount, so it's a guaranteed profit)
do you sell it right away? seems like a lot to hold in one stock...especially in the company that also pays your salary.
as for me, i max my 401k at $15k a year. Company matches with about 4 grand. virtually all of my annual bonus goes into savings. I drop a couple hundred bucks a month into my emergency fund as well. Add $150 a month each into the company's stock purchase plan and a deferred compensation plan.
wow...when i list it out, it is more than i thought.
do you sell it right away? seems like a lot to hold in one stock...especially in the company that also pays your salary.
I don't sell it right away (short term gains are rough), but I do cash out periodically. For instance, I have sell orders in for the old stock (long term vs. short term gains) at 27.5 and 28.5 right now. The newer stock I hold until it's long term gains, and with the dividends + tax benefit, it's worth the volatility risk.
law1ng2b2
09-20-06, 09:49 PM
I don't sell it right away (short term gains are rough), but I do cash out periodically. For instance, I have sell orders in for the old stock (long term vs. short term gains) at 27.5 and 28.5 right now. The newer stock I hold until it's long term gains, and with the dividends + tax benefit, it's worth the volatility risk.
I use the same strategy for mine but i have a little less at risk. what is your discount percent (if you don't mind me asking)?
I use the same strategy for mine but i have a little less at risk. what is your discount percent (if you don't mind me asking)?
10% off the last business day of the offering, every 3 months.
It used to be 10% off the lowest of the first day or the last day, that was awesome if the stock was going up - stock might be at 28, you buy at 20...
If you ask my wife she saves us a ton on handbags and clothes each month.;)
If you ask my wife she saves us a ton on handbags and clothes each month.;)
Ah, the 'ol "I buy quality so I don't have to buy again for a long time" battle cry. Funny, how that "long time" lasts just until the new styles come out the next year.
Isn't it debt before you pay the bill, and NOT debt when you pay it? As in 'I paid off my debt?'
:confused:
I think you have it backwords.
law1ng2b2
09-21-06, 05:18 PM
10% off the last business day of the offering, every 3 months.
It used to be 10% off the lowest of the first day or the last day, that was awesome if the stock was going up - stock might be at 28, you buy at 20...
Ours was the same way and they changed to the same deal you have (except with a 15% discount) about a year ago. Ours is every six months instead of three.
Either way, it is a deal that most people shouldn't pass up. Unfortunately, we reported some ugly numbers to the street last quarter so we got hammered. But it has already rebounded nicely and i think it will continue to move close to the pre-hammer prices.
meatpile
09-21-06, 08:45 PM
I think you have it backwords.
Does anybody else understand what Slope is saying?
Does anybody else understand what Slope is saying?
Yes
I undestand he/she has no idea what the hell they are talking about.
I guess if you charge it and pay the bill off before any interest accrues it's technically not a debt yet.
But it's pretty stupid to call that "savings".
Ours was the same way and they changed to the same deal you have (except with a 15% discount) about a year ago. Ours is every six months instead of three.
Either way, it is a deal that most people shouldn't pass up. Unfortunately, we reported some ugly numbers to the street last quarter so we got hammered. But it has already rebounded nicely and i think it will continue to move close to the pre-hammer prices.
It's free money. People that don't max it out are morons. 15% would be sweet, but whatever, I'll take it :).
Chamberlain
10-10-06, 04:20 PM
Where would items charged fall? I generally count that as a saving because you dont pay it until later but some may not count it because it eventully gets paid.
I hope you are not really this stupid. If so, it's pretty sad. What about interest? You are getting CHARGED interest, and although you haven't paid anything for the item yet, you will eventually pay more than what it is worth.
Johnny Rebel
10-11-06, 01:56 PM
What about equity? I pay about $500 in principal each month. Its stuck in the house but I still consider it saving.
I consider it savings too. Agreement. Unbelievable.
JeykleHyde
10-11-06, 07:41 PM
I hope you are not really this stupid. If so, it's pretty sad. What about interest? You are getting CHARGED interest, and although you haven't paid anything for the item yet, you will eventually pay more than what it is worth.
If you pay it off every month you don't have to pay interest. It's still NOT savings though. That's just dumb. I pay everything with my credit card now since I get points for every purchase. I haven't paid a penny in interest or in "member" fees since I got the card 5 years ago either. I love my Bass Pro shop card. :notworthy
builder
10-12-06, 10:54 AM
I'm just trying to guage what people put away each month. Not how much people are worth or how their investments perform.
Up til a couple months ago, nothing. Now, I put 10% or more of each invoice into a simple savings account. Once it's acquired what I think is acceptable money $5-10k, I'm going to be moving it into my SEP-IRA account. I'll keep doing this each time it builds up.
What's the best investment for that sort of account? Money Market? Stocks? I don't want to be too risky, but I'm 30 years from retirement so I can stand to lose a bit here and there if something tanks.
slydevl
10-12-06, 11:25 AM
What's the best investment for that sort of account? Money Market?
No.
meatpile
10-12-06, 11:37 AM
Up til a couple months ago, nothing. Now, I put 10% or more of each invoice into a simple savings account. Once it's acquired what I think is acceptable money $5-10k, I'm going to be moving it into my SEP-IRA account. I'll keep doing this each time it builds up.
What's the best investment for that sort of account? Money Market? Stocks? I don't want to be too risky, but I'm 30 years from retirement so I can stand to lose a bit here and there if something tanks.
Is Jelnicky still your accountant? Might be worth going over this stuff with him.
Are you building a 'safety net' with the money now, and then when that's sufficient you'll put any additional into retirement?
Also - why do you have a SEP? Jelnicky suggest?
builder
10-12-06, 01:11 PM
Is Jelnicky still your accountant? Might be worth going over this stuff with him.
Are you building a 'safety net' with the money now, and then when that's sufficient you'll put any additional into retirement?
Also - why do you have a SEP? Jelnicky suggest?
No, I am not using him anymore. I got a new guy that is doing more for less money. Jelnicky is expensive as hell.
Yes, the money right now is a net so when I come across a few months without work, I won't need to stress. But once it reaches a certain point (beyond 3-4 months living expenses), I want to put it aside for savings.
My SEP has been in place since before I quit working for the Chinaman. He started it for all of us that worked for him. I've just kept adding a little each year.
meatpile
11-01-06, 10:20 AM
Awesome. Jelnicky googled his name and found this thread. He had it printed up and showed me when I met him this AM.
slydevl
11-01-06, 10:47 AM
Awesome. Jelnicky googled his name and found this thread. He had it printed up and showed me when I met him this AM.
Ha!
Freakshow
11-02-06, 10:39 AM
Our CPA kicks tons of ass. Been using him for 8+ years.
meatpile
05-17-07, 10:01 AM
bump for va49er
Freakshow
05-17-07, 10:18 AM
Just read this over...some of you guys have strange ideas of savings.
Slope is on drugs.
Sly, I don't really believe you think paying principal on your home is savings. Come on.
slydevl
05-17-07, 11:05 AM
Just read this over...some of you guys have strange ideas of savings.
Slope is on drugs.
Sly, I don't really believe you think paying principal on your home is savings. Come on.
In my neighborhood its same as cash at worst, 4% return on average, 8% return at best.
A reverse mortgage in retirement would give me just as steady checks as a pension.
Why shouldn't I consider it savings?
meatpile
05-17-07, 11:28 AM
Why shouldn't I consider it savings?
I see it both ways - but to anwer your question, I'd say the lack of liquidity. While you can live in your home, you can't eat it or use it to pay other expenses ( unless you incur debt - once again illustrating the illiquidity ).
I've been meaning to ask you about the building / dozing on your street. I'm really coming to the conclusion that my house - and nearly every other home on my street that is old - is a dozer. I think many that have had additions will not yield anything close to the costs of the additions.
Examples:
There are 2 'old' renovated homes for sale on my street right now. Both are asking over $1 million, neither are getting shit for activity. One has been up for coming up on a year.
Meanwhile, homes to doze go for $700-$750, and the $1.5 to $2 million homes on them sell fine. There is a home 2 doors down from me, in dire need of updating ( 90 some year old lady in it for 60+ years ) that sold for about $750 in a few days. They didn't doze it.
Another expample last year was a dozer going for $750, and an entire home going for $750 that wasn't dozed. The non-dozer was well maintained and backed up to the dozer property. It's like the house was worth zero.
I'm thinking the only way my home is NOT a dozer in 20 years is if I make it about 4500sf minimum, maybe over 5000 with guest house add. I think this would cost between $400-$500k to do it up to standards of the area. NOt only do I not want a home that big, I don't want to spend / borrow the money to build it, or live through the build. If I did a smaller scale add, I think I'd be dozed in 20 years, if not sooner, and I wouldn't get hardly any of the money back if i sold sooner. That money would be 'spent'.
I guess my question is if you're standing pat on your home, and not improving unless it's seen as a 'spend', with the McMansion sprouting up a coupla doors down.
The way I see it - every home that's not a McMansion on your road is worth about the same, regardless of work done in recent years.
I might change my tune if my next door neighbor - who started at $1.2 million and has reduced - can get over a million.
slydevl
05-17-07, 11:41 AM
I see it both ways - but to anwer your question, I'd say the lack of liquidity. While you can live in your home, you can't eat it or use it to pay other expenses ( unless you incur debt - once again illustrating the illiquidity ).
I've been meaning to ask you about the building / dozing on your street. I'm really coming to the conclusion that my house - and nearly every other home on my street that is old - is a dozer. I think many that have had additions will not yield anything close to the costs of the additions.
Examples:
There are 2 'old' renovated homes for sale on my street right now. Both are asking over $1 million, neither are getting shit for activity. One has been up for coming up on a year.
Meanwhile, homes to doze go for $700-$750, and the $1.5 to $2 million homes on them sell fine. There is a home 2 doors down from me, in dire need of updating ( 90 some year old lady in it for 60+ years ) that sold for about $750 in a few days. They didn't doze it.
Another expample last year was a dozer going for $750, and an entire home going for $750 that wasn't dozed. The non-dozer was well maintained and backed up to the dozer property. It's like the house was worth zero.
I'm thinking the only way my home is NOT a dozer in 20 years is if I make it about 4500sf minimum, maybe over 5000 with guest house add. I think this would cost between $400-$500k to do it up to standards of the area. NOt only do I not want a home that big, I don't want to spend / borrow the money to build it, or live through the build. If I did a smaller scale add, I think I'd be dozed in 20 years, if not sooner, and I wouldn't get hardly any of the money back if i sold sooner. That money would be 'spent'.
I guess my question is if you're standing pat on your home, and not improving unless it's seen as a 'spend', with the McMansion sprouting up a coupla doors down.
The way I see it - every home that's not a McMansion on your road is worth about the same, regardless of work done in recent years.
I might change my tune if my next door neighbor - who started at $1.2 million and has reduced - can get over a million.
My house is a dozer regardless. The new house on my street went for $1.2M in days. The old lady next door to it can't hold out much longer and another million dollar house is gonna go up on her lot and keep creeping up toward us.
I'm fine with that, it keeps my lot value increasing. The way I see it, someone is going to pay me a little over 500K for mine, doze it, put 300-400K into a house and sell it for $1.1-1.2. Not a bad deal for the investor. We've talked about beating them to the punch and doing it ourselves.
We had 400K plans drawn up putting what we owe on the house at 650K and what it should be worth at a conservative $1M. That would almost double our equity.
As far as you, why do you care if your house is a dozer or not unless you NEED to make renovations? With 3 kids I guess I can see your concern.
meatpile
05-17-07, 12:03 PM
As far as you, why do you care if your house is a dozer or not unless you NEED to make renovations? With 3 kids I guess I can see your concern.
Yeah - I figured as much. As far as my situation, NEED is very relative in my eyes. I don't NEED the stuff I already have. I would LIKE to add a master suite and do some bathroom stuff, but I won't do it if in 10 years my home would be worth the same as it would be if I didn't.
I remember 10-15 years ago when homes started getting dozed on Princeton and Hastings. ALL of those homes are now gone or to be dozed. I think the writing's on the wall for my street. They're building a 6000sf with a frikkin ELEVATOR and a live in garage suite ( more sf ) and it'll be $2 million. Most of the original homes on the street are 2000-3000sf.
slydevl
05-17-07, 12:12 PM
Yeah - I figured as much. As far as my situation, NEED is very relative in my eyes. I don't NEED the stuff I already have. I would LIKE to add a master suite and do some bathroom stuff, but I won't do it if in 10 years my home would be worth the same as it would be if I didn't.
I remember 10-15 years ago when homes started getting dozed on Princeton and Hastings. ALL of those homes are now gone or to be dozed. I think the writing's on the wall for my street. They're building a 6000sf with a frikkin ELEVATOR and a live in garage suite ( more sf ) and it'll be $2 million. Most of the original homes on the street are 2000-3000sf.
Is that the one on the corner (Chelsea)?
meatpile
05-17-07, 12:21 PM
Is that the one on the corner (Chelsea)?
Yep. And the progression of that is, IMO, indicative of the transitional nature of the street.
It was sold to some folks I knew about 4 years ago. They paid about $400 I think. It had been a rental and was trashed. They spent at least $100k fixing it up - adding no sf other than a little finished basement and didn't touch the bathrooms or kitchen. They did infrastructure - roof, electrical, new HVAC up and down, plumbing, painting, built a massive, ornate brick wall surrounding the property, landscaping, and built and poured an new driveway. May have done more. Rarely a day in the 2 years that they didn't have a truck in the drive.
They decided to sell - fickle wife. This was 2 years ago right now. Listed for $625 and sold in about an hour, literally, for asking. Buyer said they would move in and blow up - double the size.
It stayed empty for over a year, then dozed. All their upfitting - bulldozed. That mega wall? Trash. All of it.
They'd have been better not doing a damn thing to the house.......and the tentative nature in which it went from a potential 'addition' to a dozer is telling, IMO. Once that starts happening, it's a matter of time before ALL old homes are dozers, and therefore all worth the same as the other.
Village Idiot
05-21-07, 10:57 AM
i took a stab while at my desk. we both have a money market account at our respective credit unions. she has a profit sharing deal at work. i got state retirement and a 401k. its close to 1000 a month total.
i recently found out that i could purchase a year towards my state retirement by using my 401k without penalty or repayment. my boss is gonna do it and now im considering heavily. this would enable me to retire in 3.5 years at the age of 51. does anyone see a downside to this option? i swear, it looks appealing to me.
slydevl
05-21-07, 11:04 AM
i took a stab while at my desk. we both have a money market account at our respective credit unions. she has a profit sharing deal at work. i got state retirement and a 401k. its close to 1000 a month total.
i recently found out that i could purchase a year towards my state retirement by using my 401k without penalty or repayment. my boss is gonna do it and now im considering heavily. this would enable me to retire in 3.5 years at the age of 51. does anyone see a downside to this option? i swear, it looks appealing to me.
Depends, are you going to actually retire or find a new job? Do your retirement benefits keep getting better the longer you work?
If you are going to actually retire this could significantly impact your future SS benefits as your would be averaging in zeros or substantially lower salaries for the 30 years your benefits are based on.
You also don't want to draw more than 4.5 of the principal of your nest egg in any given year in the early years of your retirement. That may drop significantly if you retire at 51 because your principal would have to last longer. I think the 4.5% figure is based on retiring around 65.
Village Idiot
05-21-07, 11:18 AM
Depends, are you going to actually retire or find a new job? Do your retirement benefits keep getting better the longer you work?
If you are going to actually retire this could significantly impact your future SS benefits as your would be averaging in zeros or substantially lower salaries for the 30 years your benefits are based on.
You also don't want to draw more than 4.5 of the principal of your nest egg in any given year in the early years of your retirement. That may drop significantly if you retire at 51 because your principal would have to last longer. I think the 4.5% figure is based on retiring around 65.i do plan on continuing to work......somewhere, at something. maybe self employment or part time, damn i cant beleive this has crept up on me so quickly. my benefits wont change much. here's the thing. i'll be providied with about the same monthly income when you factor in 0 state tax and free medical insurance on me (provided by my employer, local municipality) until i reach medicare status. alot of the guys that have been here as long as, longer than me, are doing this.....firemen, police, office pogies, you name it. most are self employed now and making good money, some under the table, when you combine all of the above factors. you have brought to light some very important considerations. thanks for the input sly.
Village Idiot
05-30-07, 10:54 PM
im gonna do it. i'll retire after i get my Christmas bonus in December, 2010.
3 years, 7 months, and a wake up
safronlove
06-08-07, 10:51 AM
I use to save a fix amount in medium to low return stock but safe and gives well return then bonds.
slydevl
06-08-07, 11:00 AM
I use to save a fix amount in medium to low return stock but safe and gives well return then bonds.
Are you Dukey's girlfriend?
I use to save a fix amount in medium to low return stock but safe and gives well return then bonds.
You planning to retire at 165?
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