View Full Version : Kansas City Penguins in 2007-08?
http://www.sprintcenter.com/images/gallery1-1.jpg
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Maybe the team will be renamed the KC Scouts (the city's original NHL Expansion team back in 1972)**. Nice shiny new arena with skyboxes & club seats waiting to be sold. If the Penguins don't get a new arena in Pittsburgh (with Isle of Capri winning the rights to build a new casino in Pittsburgh which should be awarded sometime this month), I'm sure the new owner of the team (who's company makes Blackberry Mobile Devices) won't waste any time in finding a new place to play.
SPRINT CENTER-Opening in Fall 2007 (http://www.sprintcenter.com/)
**PS Kansas City Scouts became the Colorado Rockies (1974), which then became today's New Jersey Devils (1982) . . Just in case you didn't know :) . . .
solarte1969
12-13-06, 10:39 AM
would seem silly to move them to a small market from a small market (although Pitt is barely small).
I say send them to Hamilton, ON.
Franchise
12-13-06, 11:06 AM
only rich people that have "summer homes" are in ON.
solarte1969
12-13-06, 06:30 PM
Trust me, Playa, I ain't rooting for the Pens to move...but if they aqre going to, they oughta go to Canada.
would seem silly to move them to a small market from a small market (although Pitt is barely small).
I say send them to Hamilton, ON.
I know that Winnipeg has a new downtown arena now. Its nice (grrrrh, I forgot what the name of the place was), but it does have skyboxes in it. Only problem is it only seats 15,000 folks :( :( . . . I don't know if they can add 2000 more seats in there or not, but if they could I say they could be in the running.
Hamilton is too close to Toronto & Buffalo . . . . Its a nice city, but they can drive an hour north or east to get their NHL fix.
would seem silly to move them to a small market from a small market (although Pitt is barely small).
I say send them to Hamilton, ON.
A small market with a nice, shiny new 18,000 seat arena with skyboxes & clubseats ready to be rented out to a NHL or NBA team (though the way KC got hosed with the Kings leaving there 20 years ago, I doubt they are eager to give the NBA another shot, which is why they are leaning towards the NHL).
patsfansince85
12-14-06, 08:23 AM
I know that Winnipeg has a new downtown arena now.
Would the NHL be so willing to move a franchise back to someone who very recently lost a team? It's been mentioned that KC had a team in the early 70's, so that might be something to revisit.
I have to agree with Solarte, to a point. Small market to small market wouldn't seem to make sense. But going to Canada would. What about going back to Quebec City? (Of course, this goes back to moving a franchise back shortly after losing a team...)
Fact of the matter, I do not want the Pens to leave Pittsburgh.
kickazzz2000
12-15-06, 10:47 AM
I've heard that the arena in KC is really really nice.
I'm sure you've heard by now basille backed out of the deal to buy the Pens Saturday. Apparently he wasn't happy with the terms the NHL were putting him to, making sure he excercised every avenue possible to keep the team in the Burgh. Originally I thought he found out IOC was getting the bid so he wanted out being, locked in Pittsburgh. Then I figured he was trying to pressure those in charge into taking the IOC deal or the Pens future was totally in the air and he would re-enter. Guess not- here is Lemieux's statement, check out the 1st paragraph.
Last Friday, Jim Balsillie sent us a letter terminating his agreement to purchase the Pittsburgh Penguins. He stated that he could not come to an agreement with the National Hockey League. We were shocked and offended that Mr. Balsillie would back out of such an important deal at the last minute – and less than a week before a decision on the funding of a new arena that will have far-reaching implications on our franchise, our city and our region. As a result, we intend to retain Mr. Balsillie’s deposit because we believe him to be in breach of our agreement. We can say unequivocally that the deal with Mr. Balsillie is dead.
As you know, the long-term future of the Penguins in Pittsburgh is dependent on a new arena. That has been our stance since we purchased the team out of bankruptcy in 1999. When our group bought the team more than seven years ago, I never could have imagined that we would be standing here today, still without a new arena. But that is the reality.
We were told repeatedly during the first six years of our ownership that there would be no public money available to pay for an arena. We were told repeatedly that we would have to somehow come up with private funding for a project that would cost hundreds of millions of dollars. Against all odds, and thanks to Isle of Capri Casinos, we did that. We brought the Isle of Capri to the table with an offer to privately fund construction of a $290 million arena as part of a $1 billion-plus development plan in the Lower Hill.
We always have been encouraged by the support the Isle’s bid has received from the public and many local elected leaders. In an online poll conducted by the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 87 percent of the respondents supported the Isle of Capri. In an online poll conducted by the New Pittsburgh Courier, 88 percent supported the Isle of Capri. Meanwhile, more than 80 elected officials, including Mayor Luke Ravenstahl, members of City and County Council, and members of the state legislature – from both sides of the aisle – have pledged their support to Isle of Capri. Many have asked us, in light of Mr. Balsillie’s withdrawal, what we will do in the event that the Isle of Capri is not awarded the license. Will we negotiate a Plan B? Will we continue our efforts to sell the team? What I can tell you is that we are solely focused on the Isle of Capri’s bid, which would ensure the Penguins’ future in Pittsburgh for the long term. If the Isle is not successful on Wednesday, we will have to consider all of our options.
Our ownership group has worked very hard for the past seven years to keep the Penguins in Pittsburgh. We now have a very exciting young team with a tremendous future on the ice. If the Isle of Capri is successful on Wednesday, it guarantees that the tremendous future will be right here in Pittsburgh.
The fate of the Penguins will be decided tomorrow! WHo knows what the fuck is happening, so many ways to look at all the shit gone down. Example:
Power play isn't likely to be effective
Last-minute power play by Lemieux, Penguins is unlikely to affect slots license decision
Tuesday, December 19, 2006
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
You knew this was going to be big. The Penguins called a late-afternoon news conference yesterday for Mario Lemieux. As sports owners go, Lemieux is only slightly less reclusive than the Pirates' G. Ogden Nutting, whom no one can say for sure isn't a myth. Lemieux generally only comes out for his retirements from and comebacks to the NHL or when he has a really important self-serving message to deliver.
With the awarding of Pittsburgh's slots casino license due tomorrow, this was one of those times.
"Plan B, in my opinion, is really using taxpayers' money," Lemieux said into the television cameras. "I've never heard of a government turning down $290 million of private money to build a public facility."
Annie O'Neill, Post-Gazette
Penguins owner Mario Lemieux believes the Isle of Capri should be awarded the slots license.
Click photo for larger image.
Are you thinking what I'm thinking?
That the person who writes Lemieux's material deserves a big raise?
And that Lemieux has been waiting weeks for just the right moment to deliver that line?
The rest of the Lemieux news conference was mundane. He said repeatedly that Isle of Capri Casinos Inc. should get the slots license because of its $290 million commitment to a new arena. "It's the best plan out there for our region and the Penguins." That's the same thing team president Ken Sawyer said Friday night after word came that Jim Balsillie had backed out of a deal to buy the team.
But, hey, it can't hurt for the politicians to hear it one final time from Lemieux.
Although this Lemieux appearance was predictable, the announcement about Balsillie's withdrawal was not. The cynic in me can't help but think that both are aimed at the same target -- that slots license for Isle of Capri.
At first blush Friday, Balsillie's decision seemed like welcome news. The man is just slippery enough to cause uneasiness. There he was, a guy with more money than just about anyone on the planet, down from Canada to buy the Penguins. He has no ties here. If it came down to it, he would have no problem moving the team.
That's why the Balsillie announcement seemed anything but alarming. Surely, the NHL had stepped in and told him he couldn't move the Penguins even if Isle of Capri doesn't get the slots license. Surely, the league told him he had to work with government officials on Plan B funding for a new arena, which requires a major financial commitment from Penguins ownership.
That's good news for the team's fans, right?
If it went down that way, it is.
But what if Balsillie still plans on buying the team and he and the NHL are pulling a last-minute power play in an attempt to force the state Gaming Control Board to award the license to Isle of Capri?
That's easier to believe than any sort of mandate from the NHL. Sure, the league values Pittsburgh as a market and doesn't want to lose it. But it's not going to force any ownership group into an onerous arena deal. Certainly, it's not going to send any kind of message now to the local authorities that eases the pressure for a new arena. Balsillie did that earlier last week, presumably by accident, when he testified before the board and said Plan B might be workable.
Isn't it possible that the NHL and Balsillie wanted to regain their leverage?
Isn't it reasonable to think that Balsillie's withdrawal sent a loud and clear message that can be heard all the way to Harrisburg?
Listen up, politicos. Here's a potential deep-pockets owner that has soured on a deal to buy the Penguins. If Pittsburgh wants to keep its hockey team, you had better give that license to Isle of Capri.
Lemieux added to the intrigue by refusing to address Balsillie's problems with the sale, saying only that there were issues between Balsillie and the NHL. Lemieux said he was "obviously shocked and disappointed" with the Balsillie pullout and a statement attributed to him by the team said the deal with him was "unequivocally" done. But, curiously, Lemieux refused to say Balsillie couldn't emerge again as the team buyer.
It's nice to think that the Balsillie/NHL power play -- if that's really what it is -- and the Lemieux bluster will be effective, but it doesn't seem likely. There are plenty of loyal, passionate hockey fans in Pittsburgh, but there aren't enough to scare the government officials. None of the politicians wants to see the team leave -- especially when there's a need for a new arena with or without a primary tenant -- but each will survive if it happens. Ed Rendell, Dan Onorato and Luke Ravenstahl will justify it by saying they did everything they could with Plan B.
Isle of Capri still might get the license, of course. The board could decide it really does have the best plan or that the traffic congestion at the proposed casino sites at Station Square and on the North Shore are deal breakers for the other bidders. But Isle of Capri won't get the license merely because of pressure from the NHL and the Penguins. Neither has that kind of clout.
If Isle of Capri wins, the story has a happy ending. The Penguins will stay for the long haul, regardless if Lemieux, Balsillie or someone else owns them. But if Isle of Capri doesn't get the license, don't be shocked if Balsillie jumps back into the picture.
Not to work with Rendell and Co. on Plan B.
To move the team.
http://www.post-gazette.com/images4/20061220wap_pens_islecapriPJ_450.jpg
IOC was not awarded the license. Now the Penguins will be trying to shake down the city and state to build a new arena with taxpayer dollars. I don't see that happening.
solarte1969
12-21-06, 01:12 PM
sorry Pens fans. that sucks
Passed on a fucking free arena, now the team is off the market. Fuck that shitass city.
Penguins majority owner Mario Lemieux today said the team is no longer for sale and will explore relocating to another city while trying to negotiate a deal for a new arena in Pittsburgh.
"Recent developments, including yesterday's decision by the [Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board], and the recent termination of the purchase agreement by Jim Balsillie have convinced us that it is time to take control of our own destiny. Accordingly, starting today, the team is off the market, and we will begin to explore relocation options in cities outside Pennsylvania," Lemieux said in a prepared statement. "After seven years of trying to work out a new arena deal exclusively in Pittsburgh, we need to take into consideration the long-term viability of the team and begin discussions with other cities that may be interested in NHL teams. As soon as we are no longer restricted by our agreement with Isle of Capri from negotiating an arena deal here, in the next few weeks, we will also begin discussions with local leaders about a viable Pittsburgh arena plan."
I always went back and forth on would I still support the Pens if they moved. It's not the team's fault, I'll support them I guess, but fuck that city if they go.
Bump . . . Hmmmm, I wonder if Mario Lemiuex & Co. have gotten price quotes from Mayflower or NorthAmerican yet :confused: ? ? ? I think Mario has given the city more than enough time to keep the team in Pittsburgh. I mean, if the city & state can come up with financing plans for HEINZ FIELD & PNC PARK fairly quickly, why has it taken them so long to come up with money to build a new Pens Arena? I guess they figure since the local legend bought the team back in 1999 (?), they didn't have anything to worry about the team moving.
THE BOTTOM LINE: Game's over . . . An announcement about the team moving to KC will be made by the end of the month. Watch.
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Penguins feel a chill at home
Impasse over Pittsburgh arena could bring the pro hockey team a step closer to moving to KC.
By RANDY COVITZ
The Kansas City Star
Is it for leverage, or are they leaving?
The National Hockey League’s Pittsburgh Penguins may have taken another step toward moving to Kansas City when team officials on Monday declared an impasse in negotiations for a new arena and said they will “aggressively explore relocating the team.”
That does not mean the Penguins won’t return to the bargaining table in efforts to reach an agreement for a proposed $290 million arena in Pittsburgh. But the team already has a rent-free offer to play in the new $276 million Sprint Center, which is scheduled to open in October in downtown Kansas City.
The Penguins’ lease at antiquated Mellon Arena, the oldest facility in the NHL, expires June 30.
“Unfortunately, we still don’t have a deal and are faced with mounting uncertainty that an agreement can be reached in a time frame that is realistic for our organization,” Penguins co-owners Mario Lemieux and Ron Burkle wrote in a letter to Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell, Allegheny County Chief Executive Dan Onorato and Pittsburgh Mayor Luke Ravenstahl.
“Therefore, we have no choice but to declare an impasse and to notify NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman that we will aggressively explore relocation.”
Lemieux and Penguins President Ken Sawyer visited Kansas City on Jan. 3 when Anschutz Entertainment Group, which will manage the Sprint Center, offered the club an arrangement with no up-front costs and the opportunity to be a 50 percent partner in sharing arena revenues.
Meanwhile, the cost of a new arena in Pittsburgh could exceed the starting point of $290 million, and there is a looming question of who would be responsible for additional costs and cost overruns.
The Penguins have agreed to pay $3.6 million a year in rent — plus $400,000 more a year in capital expenses for an annual contribution of $4 million — for a new arena in Pittsburgh, according to published reports there. The team also has agreed to pay $500,000 for a parking garage that would be part of the arena complex.
Still, the parties have been unable to reach an agreement, and in addition to the Penguins’ frustrations, the league is approaching a deadline to compile its 2007-08 schedule.
“We can do no more,” Lemieux, the longtime Penguins star, and Burkle said in the letter. “Our good-faith efforts have not produced a deal … and have only added more anxiety to what we thought at best was a risky proposition for us moving forward.”
The latest development was greeted with guarded optimism in Kansas City, where the Sprint Center, which will seat 17,295 people for hockey, is on schedule, on budget and has sold out its 72 luxury suites.
“This is a very interesting development,” said Mayor Kay Barnes. “AEG has put a very attractive offer on the table, and I know they will now aggressively pursue the opportunity.”
Since making its offer in January, AEG has publicly taken a low-key approach to the Penguins’ situation, following the lead of Bettman, who over the weekend helped mediate talks in an attempt to keep the Penguins in Pittsburgh. The Penguins entered the league in 1967 as an expansion team.
AEG President Tim Leiweke was unavailable for comment Monday. However, in an interview Friday with The Kansas City Star, he said: “There is little doubt in my mind that it has not been lost on anyone within the Penguins’ camp or the NHL, they walk right into a new building in Kansas City, they’re sold out from the first day on and they maximize their revenue streams.
“And most importantly, they take zero risk on the arena.”
William “Boots” Del Biaggio III, a San Jose, Calif., businessman, has agreed to a contract to be majority owner of whatever NHL team plays at the Sprint Center. On Monday Del Biaggio referred questions to Bettman.
In a statement released to The Star, Bettman said: “We are aware of the developments and have been in touch with the parties. Any further comment, at this point, would not be productive.”
When Lemieux and Sawyer were in Kansas City, they said they had hoped to make a decision within 30 days, but they extended the deadline in an effort to keep the team in Pittsburgh. The Penguins won two Stanley Cups in Lemieux’s Hall of Fame career and now have one of the league’s fastest-rising teams, featuring the sport’s brightest young star, center Sidney Crosby.
Pittsburgh, which has not made the playoffs since 2001, has the fourth-best record in the Eastern Conference. Fourteen of the Penguins’ last 16 home games have sold out, bringing the total to 21 of 32 home dates after Sunday night’s 4-3 shootout victory against the Philadelphia Flyers.
The Penguins — which once declared bankruptcy and ranked last in the NHL in attendance in 2003-04, averaging just 11,877 per game — rank 19th in attendance in the 30-team league this season. The team averages 16,225 fans at Mellon Arena, which seats 16,940 for hockey.
That could be one reason Onorato, the Allegheny County chief executive, said he was caught off-guard by the letter.
“Obviously there seems to be some confusion over where both sides thought this was going,” Onorato told a Pittsburgh TV station Monday. “I saw significant movement in the last three weeks, and obviously they think something is still blocking it. My goal is to get this done, and we’ll be reaching out to them again today to see why the change of feelings … why the change of heart of what’s happening.”
The Penguins’ owners also expressed “great concern” about an appeal filed against Don Barden, who received a license to operate slot machines in Pittsburgh and pledged $7.5 million a year from the proceeds to pay for an arena. The appeals process could delay construction of the casino and the time that arena payments could begin.
“A project of this scope, with so many complex issues, can ill afford further delays that add more risk and more uncertainty,” the Penguins’ letter said. “The risk has been magnified by what we perceive as a lack of collaboration from the public sector in the negotiations.”
Anyone hear how KC sweetened the deal? Check the bold if you don't want to read the entire fucking article.
Progress in arena talks
Penguins, politicians call four-hour session 'very constructive,' will meet again Wednesday
PHILADELPHIA -- The Penguins aren't packing for Kansas City just yet.
After more than four hours of talks last night, the team and state and local leaders reported "significant progress" in negotiations on a new arena, providing hope for fans just when it seemed as if the franchise might skate off to another city.
In a joint statement, the two sides called last night's session, the first face-to-face gathering since Jan. 18, "very constructive" and said they would meet again Wednesday, at a location to be determined.
Chuck Ardo, a spokesman for Gov. Ed Rendell who read the statement, said there would be no other comment. None of the principals were available for interviews.
The statement was issued more than four hours after Penguins co-owners Mario Lemieux and Ron Burkle and Gov. Ed Rendell, Mayor Luke Ravenstahl, and Allegheny County Chief Executive Dan Onorato convened about 7 p.m. in an undisclosed hotel in Philadelphia hoping to hammer out a deal that has escaped completion for more than two months.
Aiding the effort was National Hockey League Commissioner Gary Bettman, who traveled from New York to be part of the session, the first face-to-face meeting that involved both Mr. Lemieux and Mr. Burkle since Jan. 4. Reporters awaited the outcome at City Hall.
"We had a very constructive meeting where significant progress was made. The parties have agreed to meet again next Wednesday," Mr. Ardo said.
The positive news came four days after the two owners declared an impasse in the talks and vowed to aggressively explore a move. Since then, Kansas City, which opens the $276 million Sprint Center this year, has sweetened an offer for the team that already includes free rent and a split of the building revenues.
The offer was so good that Houston, one of the cities interested in the Penguins, dropped out of the bidding.
Despite the Penguins' vow to pursue other cities, Mr. Ardo said before yesterday's meeting the governor was "guardedly optimistic" that a deal still could be reached. He, Mr. Onorato and Mr. Ravenstahl have said they thought the parties were close to an agreement.
At the same time, Mr. Rendell and Mr. Ravenstahl would not rule out an appeal to the NHL to block a move by the Penguins, given the team's passionate fan base in Pittsburgh, which has led to sellout after sellout, and the arena deal on the table.
Mr. Ardo described the start of last night's meeting as "serious and business like."
The Penguins have offered to put up $4 million a year toward the arena - the same amount Mr. Rendell requested from them a year ago. The team contribution included $3.6 million a year in rent and $400,000 annually for capital improvements.
It also agreed to pay $500,000 a year for a parking garage as part of the arena complex.
Despite that, the parties have been unable to reach a deal. The rest of the arena funding would come from $7.5 million a year from Pittsburgh casino winner Don Barden and $7.5 million from a gambling-financed state economic development fund, up $500,000 from an earlier offer.
In their letter declaring the impasse, Mr. Lemieux and Mr. Burkle said they were concerned about the appeals of the casino award to Mr. Barden, saying the litigation creates more uncertainty about arena financing.
The Penguins had partnered with Isle of Capri Casinos Inc. in its unsuccessful bid for the license. Isle of Capri, which pledged $290 million for an arena as part of its proposal, is one of those appealing the award.
Sources close to the team also have complained about the treatment the Penguins have received from public officials, which included a table-pounding outburst by Mr. Rendell Jan. 18. Last week, the state refused to share interest rate information with the team, creating even more friction.
The letter declaring an impasse came even though Mr. Rendell, Mr. Onorato, and Mr. Ravenstahl thought the parties were close to a deal.
Among the remaining hang-ups were how to pay for an extra $20 million added as a contingency to a proposed arena bond issue. The extra $20 million increased the bond issue from $270 million to $290 million.
The parties also were in dispute over who would pay if the guaranteed maximum price for the arena came in above the available funding. The Penguins have agreed to pay for cost overruns, but only above the guaranteed maximum price.
Mr. Rendell said the parties had all but settled differences over development rights to the site of Mellon Arena, which would be demolished, and parking revenues.
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