Atkins Pros

[VOR]

Sitting down in a chair with a brick of cheddar cheese and a pairing knife. Haven't done that in 15 years. This is good.

Eating Steak and salad with sauteed mushrooms

sitting down in a chair with a brick of cheddar cheese and a pairing knife

eating a cheese omellette and bacon

Losing 10 lbs in 3 days.

I'll probably be dead in a week but what the hell.

[NormanNiner]

Read the book VOR. It's easy to do it wrong.

[VOR]

I'm being good I don't eat the whole block of cheese in one sitting. and I eat my acceptable veggies so I don't need another ass overhaul. Still the vision of ingesting all those cholesteral laden foods makes one giddy.

[NormanNiner]

Well, I'm 2.5 weeks into it and I've lost 7 pounds as of today. I haven't exercised a lick until today. I'm starting to exercise 3 times a week now so I expect the weight loss to accelerate some.

The worst side effect for me has been diarrhea. But that's supposedly normal in the first couple of weeks. It's kind of annoying though. After a meal at a restaraunt, you can't just wait until you get home. You MUST go before you leave. I've christened more public toilets than I care to mention.

I got a pack of Ketostix (any drug store will have them) which show the level of ketones in your body (you piss on a paper strip and look at the color afterwards). I'm at moderate levels of ketosis right now, so there's still room for me to improve on it. It has been tough avoiding the sweets but I swear, my appetite isn't what it used to be. That's one of the beneficial side effects of high protein diets. The production of insulin goes way down and insulin is one of the factors in feeling hungry.

Anyway, it seems to be working so far.

[Farmer]

The worst side effect for me has been diarrhea. But that's supposedly normal in the first couple of weeks. It's kind of annoying though. After a meal at a restaraunt, you can't just wait until you get home. You MUST go before you leave. I've christened more public toilets than I care to mention.


Well - this is me everyday - except for that diarrhea thing - I don't get that - but I do have to go drop kids off at the pool within 20 minutes of a meal... what is that all about? - I am not regular - I am "frequent"

I may try this atkins thing too - what book do I need to read up on first?

[Fred]

This just scares the crap out of me. As a nurse, you see people in ketosis and panic (knowing renal failure is probably gonna be next.) And here you people are INTENTIONALLY trying to put yourself in ketosis. I know at least 25 people that have tried Atkins and NOT ONE of them kept the weight off over a year. I wish you folks that are doing it the best, but .....

[builder]

Originally posted by Farmer
I may try this atkins thing too - what book do I need to read up on first?

WHY? You don't need to lose anything.

[Fred]

Originally posted by builder


WHY? You don't need to lose anything.
It's the latest fad Builder, didn't you know? Kill your kidneys- live on dialysis forever.

[builder]

I've read good and bad about it. I'm just wondering what Farmer thinks he needs to lose?

[Farmer]

well - if its dangerous - i won't do it, sheesh...

I was just going to read up on it....



builder - what do I need to lose?

How about a 36 pants size? thats out of line for me. I should not weigh over 165 at the most and I must be close to 180-185 at the very least...

I've never been really heavy and its becoming a pain in the ass - some of my clothes are tight and I already am in a 36 - I always wore a 32 in the waist until about a year and a half ago....

Man - turning 30 has done a number on me :D

[NormanNiner]

OK folks, there is no danger to your kidneys on this diet.

Here are some excerpts from the web site:

"There are no studies showing that Atkins causes kidney or liver problems in healthy individuals. There are research trials that looked at liver and kidney and heart function, with participants on ketogenic diets similar to the Atkins approach in which no negative effects were observed. Also, when we did a follow-up of more than a year on patients at The Atkins Center for Complementary Medicine, including checking their kidney and liver functions, there was no adverse effect. Of course patients in kidney failure are extremely restricted in everything they consume, including water, so Atkins would not be appropriate for them."

"Confusion about ketosis often comes from people mistaking it for ketoacidosis, a condition found in Type I diabetics; this occurs when a person's blood sugar is out of control and he or she cannot produce insulin. No doctor should have trouble differentiating physiologic ketosis, which you will experience while doing Atkins, from ketoacidosis. Further, since people are often overweight specifically because of an overabundance of insulin, it is essentially impossible for them to be in ketoacidosis."

Atkins does not recommend starving your body of carbs. You actually are supposed to consume 20 grams per day for two weeks, then increase it as you level off your weight.

People who gain it back aren't "doing" the maintenance right. They must be going back to the way they were eating before which is why they got fat in the first place. After you lose the weight you want to lose, you must maintain it with controlled carb intake. You can never go back to the way you ate before, and that's true with any diet.

Fred, you should read the book. As a nurse, I would think you'd like to know everything about this nutrional approach. I was skeptical as well, but the author has some pretty convincing medical evidence.

[builder]

well....I think you look fine. But you live your life the way you want. I don't say a word.

[Tiorted Snoil]

Those ketosis sticks are a waste of money. Think about it...anytime someone does any diet to lose fat, at some point, they have to be using fat for energy...whether it is atkins or any other diet that someone is losing fat on.

As I've posted before, your initial weight loss is all water. Your muscles store carbohydrates...they are called glycogen. Each gram of glycogen has four grams of water with it....you will use your glycogen before fat...therefore the initial weight loss is all of the water. If you workout, then you'll lose a lot more fat.

The latest research is pointing to any "white" carbohydrate as your enemy because they get turned into fat easily...sugar, white flour, pasta, etc. Unprocessed carbs like the ones in wheat, vegggies, and certain fruits are absorbed and burned slowly, therefore not stored as fat as easily. You have to read the labels carefully....wheat bread for example can contain upto 75% white flour....read the label, if it says "flour" or "white flour" find another brand...never consure more than 50 grams of carbs in any one meal and you'll be alright.

[VOR]

Originally posted by Farmer
well - if its dangerous - i won't do it, sheesh...

I was just going to read up on it....



builder - what do I need to lose?

How about a 36 pants size? thats out of line for me. I should not weigh over 165 at the most and I must be close to 180-185 at the very least...

I've never been really heavy and its becoming a pain in the ass - some of my clothes are tight and I already am in a 36 - I always wore a 32 in the waist until about a year and a half ago....

Man - turning 30 has done a number on me :D

Yeah I kind gained in stages till I was 20 I weighed about 145 then I bumped to 160 till 30 then 180 at 40 now I'm at 200. Trying to get it back down to 155 160 and stay there that was a comfortable weight. It took me a month of failed starts before I really got to the point where I could give up eating junk food and beer. Now I really don't get hungry, we'll what happens when school starts in january.

[builder]

Originally posted by Tiorted Snoil
The latest research is pointing to any "white" carbohydrate as your enemy because they get turned into fat easily...sugar, white flour, pasta, etc. Unprocessed carbs like the ones in wheat, vegggies, and certain fruits are absorbed and burned slowly, therefore not stored as fat as easily. You have to read the labels carefully....wheat bread for example can contain upto 75& white flour....read the label, if it says "flour" or "white flour" find another brand...never consure more than 50 grams of carbs in any one meal and you'll be alright.

I lost almost 55 lbs in a little over a year using this philosophy.

[Fred]

Originally posted by NormanNiner
OK folks, there is no danger to your kidneys on this diet.


So I assume you got 100% approval for going on this diet from your MD first? ANY dietician would go bolistic if you ask him/her about Atkins.

[NormanNiner]

Originally posted by Tiorted Snoil
Those ketosis sticks are a waste of money. Think about it...anytime someone does any diet to lose fat, at some point, they have to be using fat for energy...whether it is atkins or any other diet that someone is losing fat on.

As I've posted before, your initial weight loss is all water. Your muscles store carbohydrates...they are called glycogen. Each gram of glycogen has four grams of water with it....you will use your glycogen before fat...therefore the initial weight loss is all of the water. If you workout, then you'll lose a lot more fat.


"It is typical of any weight loss plan, including the Induction phase of Atkins, that during the first few days, or even the first week, some of the weight loss will be water loss. However, when you follow a controlled carbohydrate eating plan, your body switches from burning carbohydrate to burning fat for energy, resulting in the loss of stored fat. In fact, research shows that even when water is lost during the first few days on a controlled carbohydrate nutritional approach, the water balance soon returns to normal, and the weight loss comes from fat. The most dramatic sign of this loss is seeing the inches drop off your measurements."

In addition, I have to drink something like 96 ounces of water per day. It's not like my body is not getting water.

I wish the naysayers would just read the book.

[Fred]

Originally posted by NormanNiner
Fred, you should read the book. As a nurse, I would think you'd like to know everything about this nutrional approach. I was skeptical as well, but the author has some pretty convincing medical evidence.
Do you really think the author of the book is gonna make money is he is not able to convince people too lazy to diet the healthy way that there is no quick fix?

Check with me in a year and let me know what your B.U.N. and Creatine levels are running and how much of the weight you kept off.

[Tiorted Snoil]

oh I've read the book...and I've done atkins sucessfully in the past and still practice some of its principals..."atkins" type diets are the staple most weight lifters use now-a-days.

[NormanNiner]

Originally posted by Fred

So I assume you got 100% approval for going on this diet from your MD first? ANY dietician would go bolistic if you ask him/her about Atkins.

Depends on who you talk to. My wife's doctor told her that controlled carb intake is a good idea. I don't have any health problems that would preclude someone from not doing this diet. If I did, I would consult a doctor. Believe me, I did a lot of research before doing this.

Again, read the book and maybe this stuff would make more sense. :D

[Tiorted Snoil]

Originally posted by Fred

Do you really think the author of the book is gonna make money is he is not able to convince people too lazy to diet the healthy way that there is no quick fix?

Check with me in a year and let me know what your B.U.N. and Creatine levels are running and how much of the weight you kept off.

The latest studies coming from Duke and Harvard are pointing to the Atkins diet being safe...creatine levels were fine, cholesterol was reduced, blood pressure down, and there were no problems with kidneys....shit, I take a creatine supplement and my levels are fine.

For serious obese people, there are more long term dangers in carrying the extra weight than any short term dangers that may take place while losing the weight.

[Fred]

Originally posted by NormanNiner


Depends on who you talk to. My wife's doctor told her that controlled carb intake is a good idea. I don't have any health problems that would preclude someone from not doing this diet. If I did, I would consult a doctor. Believe me, I did a lot of research before doing this.
Norm- sounds like you are doing a little side-step here. I asked if you had 100% approval from YOUR MD to follow "ATKIN'S"- not part of it, or carb-controlled or from your wife's doc, I asked about you asking YOUR MD if "Atkins" as is, was safe for you.

[Fred]

Originally posted by Tiorted Snoil

For serious obese people, there are more long term dangers in carrying the extra weight than any short term dangers that may take place while losing the weight.
Yeah, God forbid they watch their calorie intake and exercise.

[Tiorted Snoil]

my MD said atkins was 100% safe...

for every doctor that says it is unsafe, you can find another that will say it is safe. From what I've found, most of the naysayers just regurgatate (sp) heresay and haven't done any research on it.

[Tiorted Snoil]

Originally posted by Fred

Yeah, God forbid they watch their calorie intake and exercise.

that's because they are addicted to the insulin spikes that eating carbs gives them....Atkins breaks the addiction.

You've had trouble quitting smoking in the past right? Your body is addicted to nicotine just like these people's are addictied to the insulin spikes. You've tried some hokey methods of quitting too, haven't you?

It's not just carbs that are almost eliminated...it is also caffeine....because caffeince can cause an insulin spike in certain people...although the people I know who are diabetic dispute that.

[Fred]

Originally posted by Tiorted Snoil
my MD said atkins was 100% safe...

for every doctor that says it is unsafe, you can find another that will say it is safe. From what I've found, most of the naysayers just regurgatat heresay and haven't done any research on it.
Hook a few folks up to dialysis that went into renal failure from ketosis and see if you are whistling a different tune. And yes Norm- it is a different type of ketosis than diabetics go into, but ketosis is ketosis: You are burning fat for fuel CONSTANTLY. Fat was meant to be stored for emergencies. Throwing your body into thinking it is in an emergency situation 24/7 is just not safe. Nature meant for us to burn carbs first, then protien, then fats. Fucking with the way your body was designed to work is risky business, I don't give a big fat rats ass what a book says. It's your kidneys- have at em'!

[Tiorted Snoil]

Originally posted by Fred

Hook a few folks up to dialysis that went into renal failure from ketosis and see if you are whistling a different tune. And yes Norm- it is a different type of ketosis than diabetics go into, but ketosis is ketosis: You are burning fat for fuel CONSTANTLY. Fat was meant to be stored for emergencies. Throwing your body into thinking it is in an emergency situation 24/7 is just not safe. Nature meant for us to burn carbs first, then protien, then fats. Fucking with the way your body was designed to work is risky business, I don't give a big fat rats ass what a book says. It's your kidneys- have at em'!

How do you know humans are supposed to use carbs for energy? Everything I've read points to man as being meat eaters.

Actually, research is showing fat to be a better energy source. When carbs are burned for energy, the by product is lactic acid which makes the muscles tired and sore...when fat is burned, there is no lactic acid...athletes have actually performed better when using fat for energy vs carbs. did you know caffeine is a banned olympic substance simply because it makes one burn more fat for energy thus giving a performance advantage?

According to doctors I've talked to, most of the people you hook up to dialysis have done several things to pre-fuck up their kidneys before they went on Atkins....being overweight is very unhealthy.

[NormanNiner]

Originally posted by Fred

Do you really think the author of the book is gonna make money is he is not able to convince people too lazy to diet the healthy way that there is no quick fix?

Check with me in a year and let me know what your B.U.N. and Creatine levels are running and how much of the weight you kept off.

I'll do that Fred. For the last time, there is no evidence that this is unhealthy for your kidneys. Can you provide me with some? As in, evidence that Atkins has caused kidney problems in someone who previously didn't have kidney problems? But if my blood urea nitrogen and creatine are too low or too high as a result, I'll be the first person to bash Mr. Atkins.

People think that this nutritional approach is bacon and eggs all day long. It's not. It's also vegetables, water, excercise, and vitamin supplements.

The author actually released an updated version of his book to encourage people to not see it as a "diet" but rather on ongoing health regimine. That doesn't mean "doing Atkins" the rest of your life. Induction (the first two weeks) is the most severe time of the weight loss plan, but after that, you adopt a lower carb diet, not no carb diet.

Fred, having said all that, I do respect your opinion because you are a nurse and obviously see many people with varying health problems. It's nice to know that, in some way, you're looking out for me. :D

[NormanNiner]

Originally posted by Fred

Hook a few folks up to dialysis that went into renal failure from ketosis and see if you are whistling a different tune. And yes Norm- it is a different type of ketosis than diabetics go into, but ketosis is ketosis: You are burning fat for fuel CONSTANTLY. Fat was meant to be stored for emergencies. Throwing your body into thinking it is in an emergency situation 24/7 is just not safe. Nature meant for us to burn carbs first, then protien, then fats. Fucking with the way your body was designed to work is risky business, I don't give a big fat rats ass what a book says. It's your kidneys- have at em'!

What is wrong with burning fat from your body IF YOU HAVE TOO MUCH OF IT? That's the point. Getting rid of the excess fat on my body. Once I have lost what I want to lose, I'll go back on a normal eating arrangement, but "normal" means not as much carbs as I used to eat.

[NormanNiner]

Originally posted by Fred

Norm- sounds like you are doing a little side-step here. I asked if you had 100% approval from YOUR MD to follow "ATKIN'S"- not part of it, or carb-controlled or from your wife's doc, I asked about you asking YOUR MD if "Atkins" as is, was safe for you.

Then my answer is no. I did not consult a doctor. But, I have no health problems as I had a physical a month ago. If I did, I wouldn't feel comfortable doing this without an MD's consent. Shall I consult my doctor before I start my workout program too? Those free weights can really be dangerous and I should really ask my doctor about them before starting. :rolleyes:

Don't you think if Atkins was so deadly bad as you proclaim it is that there would be rioting in the streets against it? There is a reason why his book has been on the best seller list for so many years.

[Tiorted Snoil]

IMO, the best long term answer in losing fat and keeping it off is to put on muscle. Every pound of muscle takes 50 calories per day to just maintain body temp. You add ten pounds of muscle, you burn 500 more calories per day which is 3,500 calories (and a pound of fat) per week.

What would you rather do walk on a fucking treadmill, ride a bike, or do some other cardio for 45 minutes everyday and count carbs or calories...or lift weights three days per week and watch TV?

[LarryD]

anyone heard of anything wrong with combining ephedra and the atkins diet?

[NormanNiner]

Originally posted by Tiorted Snoil

According to doctors I've talked to, most of the people you hook up to dialysis have done several things to pre-fuck up their kidneys before they went on Atkins....being overweight is very unhealthy.

Exactly. There is no evidence that Atkins fucked up their kidneys by itself.

[Tiorted Snoil]

Originally posted by LarryD
anyone heard of anything wrong with combining ephedra and the atkins diet?

ephedra will raise your blood pressure to unhealthy levels....whether on atkins or not.

[NormanNiner]

Originally posted by Fred
I don't give a big fat rats ass what a book says.

Then you'll continue to be misinformed. :D

Tell you what, Fred. The next time you're at work, stop a few doctors and get their opinions. I'd like to know what they think.

[Fred]

Come on Norm- could Atkins be making millions if he was not able to convince people it was safe? I'm not saying he is stupid by any means- I am saying he is twisting the truth and misleading.

Boo, the human body is made to protect itself. There are multpile conditions where one or more organs malfunction and cause problems. But to take a relatively healthy person who is 20, 30 pounds over weight and put them on Atkins, and INTENTIONALLY changing with the way the body is designed to burn nourishment is risky business. Fats are intended to be used as a last resort and when your body starts burning fat for energy, it is a signal to the body that it is in starvation mode. Your body also needs certain sugars/carbs for proper brain functioning that fat can not provide. Best of luck to you, but I personally think anyone who looks at Atkins as a quick fix is playing Russian Roulette.

My brother was a weight lifter in his younger days. He stopped lifting and gained to 325. He went on Atkins and lost 100 pounds. My sis in law works in a lab at a local hospital and drew a chem profile monthly and other than his cholesterol and trigs going up a bit, they lab work was stable. He reached his goal and tried the maintainence diet. No matter how hard he tried, he could not stay on it. Over the next year, he gained OVER 100 pounds back and now bashes Atkins. He says the maintainence diet was unrealistic- that nobody could stick to it forever and as soon as you slip, it's like falling on ice- you can't stop it. I just hope that burning ketones for so long doesn't catch up with him 10 years or so down the road.

[SilverSurfer]

I didn't do it because I bought the book, and you can't drink soft drinks (hell I couldn't find ANYTHING I could drink that I like) and the first 2 weeks you can't drink beer at all. Fuck that.

I've been exercising and cut down some on my fat grams and quit eating bread and potatoes. I've lost 8 lbs since November 27th.

[curlymodegrrl]

I did Atkins for 2 months and lost 25 lbs. I've done low-fat and going to the gym with similar results. I did a no-sugar, only whole-grains diet for a week and lost weight. But no matter what I did, I always gained it back. The diets didn't address my real problem--an emotional dedpendence on food.

Since then I've read another book and tried something new: when I am hungry (I feel "empty" or my stomach growls), I put food in my body. I eat whatever sounds good or is on hand. That could be a huge plate of pasta with no meat and low-fat sauce, or a couple bites of that. The amount varies because I stop when I am full. Sometimes it's a big cheeseburger and chocolate cake, and sometimes I have a low-fat bowl of cereal or two. Sometimes my first meal of the day is at noon, sometimes 2 pm. (I work nights.) Sometimes I have one big meal a day, sometimes 6 small ones. I eat everything and every way possible. I don't diet. One week, I had ceasar salad and ravioli and a chocolate chip cookie for dinner for like 4 nights straight. But usually the only thing I consistently consume is a mocha latte I make every morning with whole milk. The point is that it doesn't matter what I eat, just that I eat enough food to keep me alive. I haven't dropped 25 lbs in 2 months, but I've lost 20 since June. It's slower this way, but moderation (eating appropriate amounts of what my body wants) works. If I am more active physically, I get hungrier. If I'm less active, I don't get as hungry. My body has become self-regulating. I no longer think about food 16 hours a day. Counting fat grams, carb grams or calories intensified my love of food because I was always thinking about food. Diets take the weight off, but for me they will never work permanently because they don't change how I feel about food.

[Puttingood]

The diets didn't address my real problem--an emotional dedpendence on food.

Yeah, thats what I have--an emotional dependence to pork and fried things and bread and butter and coca cola and beer ;)

[VOR]

Originally posted by Puttingood
The diets didn't address my real problem--an emotional dedpendence on food.

Yeah, thats what I have--an emotional dependence to pork and fried things and bread and butter and coca cola and beer ;)

Well bread coca cola and beer are out, but you can have all the pork and fried things you want. If we join the lumbee nation can think we can do peyote, it's more fun than beer anyway.

[curlymodegrrl]

Originally posted by VOR


Well bread coca cola and beer are out, but you can have all the pork and fried things you want. If we join the lumbee nation can think we can do peyote, it's more fun than beer anyway.

I see nothing wrong with coke or beer or fried food. I eat whatever I want. ;)

[Honeygirl]

Originally posted by curlymodegrrl I see nothing wrong with coke or beer or fried food. I eat whatever I want. ;) I do this too Curly, with excellent results. I just exercise according to what I've eaten. At first, when I started my wee programme - I didn't change my eating at all - just walked everywhere and got in to the routine of walking. Then I added swimming (haven't done that for a while though). I figured that I needed to work on the physchological things behind the eating first - and then went with whatever worked for me. I didn't want to eliminate certain groups of food - and if I have a hankering for a cheeseburger - I want to have it! I've not stuck to this religiously or anything - sometimes, I'd take a week off and just relax. I just wanted to avoid the whole diet cycle thing - and the weight I've lost - I've kept off. I'm still curvy though - I don't think I'll ever lose these hips, but I feel healthier for it. :)

[curlymodegrrl]

I agree, Honey. The only difference is that I don't exercise purposely. But I understand about the hips. The older I get, the curvier I get. :) :rolleyes:

[Puttingood]

:banana: