vietnam vets confront anti-iraq war protesters

[Tiorted Snoil]

why bring the protest to the vietnam memorial?

from the observer:


Posted on Thu, Jan. 02, 2003

Peace rally runs into war veterans
Tempers erupt as protesters meet at Vietnam memorial
ADAM L. CATALDO
Staff Writer

About 50 people who marched to the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Charlotte on Wednesday to protest a possible war with Iraq were confronted by angry veterans who said their presence was an insult to fallen comrades.

A police officer intervened and said the protesters should be allowed to proceed. The dozen veterans stepped aside.

"I have no hate against anyone except punks like you," Edd Furr, 67, a Vietnam veteran from Concord, shouted at one of the protesters.

As they walked alongside the memorial several veterans exchanged words with the protesters and told them not to touch the wall, located in a park between and Third and Fourth streets just east of the I-277 loop.

"I have already touched that wall before," said David Dixon, 34, an organizer of the march.

"Then your finger must be burning," a veteran responded.

The protesters lined up in front of the wall, sang "God Bless America" and left soon afterward.

Before marching to the war memorial, the protesters gathered at noon at Marshall Park. As several people spoke, protesters carried signs with some reading "No American Blood for Iraqi Oil" and "War Kills / Peace is Patriotic." One person held a small American flag.

Some speakers criticized U.S. Mideast policy, while others spoke of the immorality of war.

To the veterans it was not the protesters' message that was upsetting. The veterans said they were angered by the protesters' attempt to use the memorial as way to make their point.

"This hurts," said Diran Tookmanian, 57, a Vietnam veteran, whose voice broke slightly as he appeared to hold back tears. "This hurts more than you can imagine."

Tookmanian said he served in Vietnam for a year in the infantry. Tookmanian and other veterans said they learned about the protest over the Internet.

"If they want to protest they can go in front of government buildings and scream and yell to their heart's content," Tookmanian said as he pointed toward uptown. "I object to the place they do it. To me this is like Gettysburg. It is like Arlington. This is hallowed ground to us."

Dixon, Charlotte coordinator of the Fellowship of Reconciliation, responded: "If we come here on New Year's Day it is to honor and respect those people."

Dixon said there was not a greater turnout because not enough people knew about the demonstration or the groups opposed to a war with Iraq.

"I would say the anti-war movement is in the majority," Dixon said.

"It's rare that I meet a person who is for the war."

One of those who attended the rally and spoke was David Marresh, 77, of Myers Park. Marresh said he would rather have been home, but: "I think it is wrong, and when I feel that strongly about it I have to speak up. I feel that a terrible action has been set in motion by the president, and it can only end in disaster."

[Coach Micool]

Just gotta love those peacniks. They have a point about peaceful resolutions, they just go about it all wrong............
.....like the Vietnam vets have a damn thing to do with the Iraq situation right now, or could do anything more than the demonstrators could. That was a complete lack of respect, but then again, so do most 'activists'.
Those people have a great big heart, too bad they have little minds to go with it.



Note: that same 'majority' of people was the same 'majority' that wanted to stay under English rule during the 1770's.

[Sportsgirl]

What really ticks me off is the way some protestors, especially "know it all" celebrities, use Vietnam to make their point when they really don't know what they're talking about. They need to do their history homework, talk to veterans, and get all the facts before they open their mouths IMHO.

[Coach Micool]

Originally posted by Sportsgirl
What really ticks me off is the way some protestors, especially "know it all" celebrities, use Vietnam to make their point when they really don't know what they're talking about. They need to do their history homework, talk to veterans, and get all the facts before they open their mouths IMHO.

Great post SG!
And mosta those Vets were MADE to be there, it weren't THEIR choice. Like those guys just volunteered to hop on a plane, leave their family anf friends, fly halfway round the world, live amongst the mud, cold, heat, dissentary and disease, lose life and limb, to shoot some guys wearing the wrong color pajamas, just for fun.

[Superfluous_Nut]

You guys are missing the point entirely. You've got this notion that being anti war is the same as being anti military. Maybe that's a hold-over from the vietnam era.

I think the vietnam tie-in is appropriate. That was a "war" that we were sold by the president. As soon as it became clear what exactly was going on, the public pressure helped bring an end to the american involvement. Vietnam is a very sore subject for many Americans. I think the protestors are attempting to avert another sore subject.

[Coach Micool]

No EJ.
You missed the point.
The Vietnam memorial was for showing respect for the fallen soldiers who were made to die for our 'country'. It was a sorry ass war. Protesting war is fine with me, and even most people who are pro-war.
It's where and when you protest that is the issue. There is a time and place for everything, and that was not the place, nor the time.
I think that's what I disslike most about most protestors and activist. They do the stupidest, nonrespectful things just to make a point. Sometimes that aint right. The ends (no matter what) always justify the means, as far as they are concerned. But in doing so, they seem to hurt their cause more so than have helped.

[Sportsgirl]

Nobody is missing the point, Nut. I just don't agree with protesting at the Vietnam Memorial. If it were a group of veterans protesting, perhaps I would feel differently - it's their memorial!

[Tiorted Snoil]

when it ran in the paper they had pictures of the vets...yeah, they were in their 50's but I wouldn't have messed with any of them.

[hasbeens99]

Not knowing exaclty what the protesters were saying, I think it's at least possible that the point of an anti-war demonstration at the Vietnam Memorial was to illustrate that they don't want our country to have to build another Wall. The rest could be just politics.

If that is, indeed, the case, I think I could support the protest. But if some of you are right, and they are just stomping on a raw nerve to get extra publicity without regard or respect to the fallen whom the Wall commemorates, then I say DCPD should've let the vets disperse the crowd. To quote SG, "it's their memorial."

[Superfluous_Nut]

So you're saying it's wrong to go to a memorial to fallen soldiers from a misguided war to draw attention to the fact that the president is trying to get us into a new misguided war which will undoubtedly spawn a few more such memorials?

Coach, the whole idea of a protest is to make a point. Sometimes you need to be controversial to get on the news and thus get your message out. I agree that some people go too far and just don't accept that fact that their message is just not interesting to people (PETA comes to mind). But I think this protest was fine. You've got cause and effect sitting right there in front of you.

SG, why does military service grant somebody the right to protest at the memorial in your eyes? Does that also mean that only people who served should be making the actual decisions?

[Flyjax]

It sounds like the anti-war protesters were looking for the most warlike place they could find to say what they needed to say. I don't agree with the place they chose.

And, at the same time, I don't agree with a possible war with Iraq. Daddy should've finished what he started ten years ago.

[Puttingood]

David Dixon is a punk and will do anything to publicize his cause. He has always done that and he knew full well what he was doing when he chose The Wall. That is why he chose it because he knew people would show up and he would get his air-time. I will hit that son of a bitch right between the eyes some day but that will be my time and place. If he continues to travel the road he is traveling now then he will get hurt. As the japanease guy said " We have awaken a sleeping giant" and that is what David will do if he continues. I know one of the particular men that was there and David better hope he never awakens that man.

Nut, you have a good point but it is all mute because you really have no idea (because of distance) why David done this. David is somewhat of a local con man that makes money off this stuff. Not sure who funds him but he is funded. I will find out.

Coach, you ain't got a clue so best just cool it.
As Sportsgirl says "Get your facts" and next time you decide to call it a sorry ass war shooting at people wearing the wrong color pajamas then remember that at the end of that sentence you had better thank every one of those people that was involved in that sorry ass war shooting at those wrong pajamas. They are you fathers and mothers and aunts and uncles. They are my brothers and sisters and they are what some of us live with everyday so don't pretend to know that you know the whys and what fors. It pisses people off and someday somewhere you will piss off the right person. I have no idea what Nam was all about. I thought I did once and then another time I changed my mind. Last year I had another idea and tomorrow I might change my mind again. But there is one thing I know for a fact and that is that you have no idea and you damn sure ain't earned the right to speak of it.

[hasbeens99]

Originally posted by Superfluous_Nut
So you're saying it's wrong to go to a memorial to fallen soldiers from a misguided war to draw attention to the fact that the president is trying to get us into a new misguided war which will undoubtedly spawn a few more such memorials?

No, if they have the fallen and prevention of new fallen as their motivation. I'm saying it's wrong if they're just looking for attention -- protesting to be popular. A move like that can make you popular and notorious at the same time. Some people thrive on that.

[Coach Micool]

All I can add to what I've already said is:

Those protesters ain't changed one damn thing. They just caused a stink. They showed they are idiots with a just cause, but disrespecting idiots, just the same. So it makes their whole point mute in the eyes of the real descision makers.
They want to really change something, they need to go to DC and protest in front of the WhiteHouse. Dissrespecting that MEMORIAL is a bad choice of venues, and it worstened their cause. Most activists ARE idiots, with no life, but Just causes sometimes, and in their emotional frenzy, they are missled by other activists to do stupid shit. Like my momma said : "if your friend was to jump off the house does that mead you would too?"
No, I had more brains than that, but most protesting 'activists' do not.
I don't want to go to war. My US Congressman live just down the street. When I protest, I go to his damn house and tell him what I think. I don't go piss on his dog to make myself 'clear'.

[slydevl]

The prevention of the spread of communism is not and never will be misguided.

[Coach Micool]

Originally posted by Puttingood
Coach, you ain't got a clue so best just cool it.
As Sportsgirl says "Get your facts" and next time you decide to call it a sorry ass war shooting at people wearing the wrong color pajamas then remember that at the end of that sentence you had better thank every one of those people that was involved in that sorry ass war shooting at those wrong pajamas. They are you fathers and mothers and aunts and uncles. They are my brothers and sisters and they are what some of us live with everyday so don't pretend to know that you know the whys and what fors. It pisses people off and someday somewhere you will piss off the right person. I have no idea what Nam was all about. I thought I did once and then another time I changed my mind. Last year I had another idea and tomorrow I might change my mind again. But there is one thing I know for a fact and that is that you have no idea and you damn sure ain't earned the right to speak of it.

Now calm down Putt. I was making a point about the people that were made to go. My dad was in Nam, I lost 2 uncles, and 3 cousins in that fuckin piece o' shit, so don't tell me what the fuck I don't know. It was a sorry ass war because of that fact, and none of them wanted to do the shooting or be shot at by none of the SOB's in the 'other color pajamas' as they call it. You apparently didn't read my post very well cause I said they DIDN'T do it for fun, yet the anti-war crowd that spit on my dad when he came home accused him of that. So get the fuck off me!

[Superfluous_Nut]

But we're talking about public opinion here. Somebody's gotta say the emperor has no clothes on. The more dissenting voices you hear, the easier it is for dissenting voices to speak up. They're just trying to be heard.

[Puttingood]

The prevention of the spread of communism is not and never will be misguided. slydev

Very well said. Thank you.



So get the fuck off me! posted by Coach

Sorry about losing your kin people in Nam. If you give me their names then I would like to get them off The Wall. I am very sorry for your loss.
Your anger does not make up for the fact that you are doing my brothers and sisters an injustice by talking like that though. I will get off of you when you learn respect. Only then will I do it. I ain't never been one to mince words but I really think you are confused here and you do not really mean what you saying. You think about it and let me know. I am an peculiar kind of person and I guess some times I should have bobbed instead of weaving but it just ain't in me. Don't ever make a point about the people that went unless you was there. The real point may get lost in the shuffle.;)

[Coach Micool]

Originally posted by Coach Micool


Great post SG!
And mosta those Vets were MADE to be there, it weren't THEIR choice. Like those guys just volunteered to hop on a plane, leave their family anf friends, fly halfway round the world, live amongst the mud, cold, heat, dissentary and disease, lose life and limb, to shoot some guys wearing the wrong color pajamas, just for fun.

That's what I said, Putt. I wasn't dissing anybody that served their country. I am thankful for those who fight for my freedom, and mourn and respect those that die for it. What I said their was an extension of my fist post, and shit like that's what the anti war crowd accuse those who went of what I said there. That's not what I think, sorry you were confused. I was dissing those who disrespected that memorial, plain and simple. Yes, the war was about stopping Communism, or stopping it's spread, a very noble and important thing, period. That's why we went. Most of the vets I know and my family members that went were drafted. Only my Dad was not, and luckily he was in the Air Force before it started, and didn't have to deal with some of the things others did, plus he was there before it 'officially' started, and for 2 yrs during the beginning. I didn't mince words an I'm damn well pissed at the anti-war crowd for doing what they done. I don't know why the fuck I seem to be missunderstood, I reread my own posts and don't come to the same conclusions others seem to see in my posts.

Thank you Putt for serving our great country, fighting for me and my family, whether you wanted to or not- it doesn't matter- you didn't run off to Canada like many magic men, who I hope stay the hell outa America even today. Shit like what they done pisses me off, and I hate how the anti-war crowd works. I don't like wars either, but I ain't gonna diss nobody over it. If I were running a damn war, I'd just turn the place into concrete, and enjoy the spoils, but we both know that ain't how the shit's gonna fly. They might be entitled to their opinion, but where and when they done it's wrong. I shall PM you names, have a good weekend.

[Puttingood]

Yes, the war was about stopping Communism, or stopping it's spread, a very noble and important thing, period. That's why we went.

Thank you. :)

[Coach Micool]

Originally posted by Puttingood
Yes, the war was about stopping Communism, or stopping it's spread, a very noble and important thing, period. That's why we went.

Thank you. :)

You are welcome.

So you aren't confused:

.."guys just volunteered to hop on a plane, leave their family and friends, fly halfway round the world, live amongst the mud, cold, heat, dissentary and disease, lose life and limb, to shoot some guys wearing the wrong color pajamas, ===

JUST FOR FUN= what the peaceniks think

BECAUSE THEY WERE ASKED, OR VOLUNTEERED TO SERVE OUR FREE COUNTRY AND STOP COMMUNISM==the truth.

better?

[Braves]

It's funny that you mentioned Peta, EJ. That was the first thing that came to my mind. Same strategies, same tactics.

I don't mind people protesting anything. Quite frankly, I'm glad we have the right to do that ( thanks to our warriors ). We need and demand checks and balances. But if one is going to make a mockery of what the symbol of the War Memorial represents to the living soldiers and families of Vietnam, then one can expect very little support in what they are protesting about. And I would suggest that this group of protesters knew exactly what their exploitation would garner with the media.

It's almost comedic to watch some of these protesters. It's like they're nostalgic for the late 60's.....Retro-hippies. They don't care for any causes, it's just cooool to protest something.

[Braves]

Originally posted by Coach Micool
you didn't run off to Canada like many magic men, who I hope stay the hell outa America even today.

I'll tell you the truth. That has never bothered me. This was a drafted war. Many people didn't support it. There was not many enlisted men and women. Those that were, had a job to do. It was their avocation and training. Some podunk from West Virginia, who could barely read was told to report to Ft. Jackson immediately and sent to Vietnam right after training. They had no choice, but once they were there, they had to fight.

The ones that would sicken me would be the real traitors ( deserters ). They had a job to do and they quit their teammates, leaving them to defend for themselves. They are the ones to direct your anger at. Believe me....nobody WANTED to be drafted.

There is a huge difference in expectations and standards between an enlisted man and a drafted one.

[Superfluous_Nut]

PETA's tactics are inflamitory and aggressive -- almost violent (or at least, some of their membership is anyway).

I honestly don't see anything that these folks said or did as being inflamitory. The memorial is to those who fell serving our country -- it's not a memorial to the idea of war. I would say they're honoring them by being bold enough to stand up and say they're tired of building monuments to fallen soldiers.

It would be WAY different if they were saying shit like "the army is a bunch of baby killers" or something like that, but I didn't see anything along those lines in the article. They went there, sang God Bless America, spoke (tho it doesn't say about what), then left.

[Agent Smith]

Originally posted by Tiorted Snoil
angry veterans who said their presence was an insult to fallen comrades.



The above quote is why the protest should not have occurred at the memorial.


I am glad that people have the freedom to protest this war; but not at the Vietnam Memorial. The memorial is an important place for the veterans who have the most right to be there. Given the history between anti-war protesters and Vietnam veterans, this is absolutely wrong. The mere presence of anti-war protesters is upsetting to many veterans and especially at a place that should be a sanctuary.

It does not matter if the protesters had noble intentions or not. I challange them to find a more inappropriate place to stage a protest.

[Puttingood]

It's almost comedic to watch some of these protesters. It's like they're nostalgic for the late 60's.....Retro-hippies. They don't care for any causes, it's just cooool to protest something.

Exactly and that's okay in a way but what David Dixon has done is stepped over a fine line. Because he could not get the anti-protest down at the Court house then he has decided to take it somewhere and use the Vets to get him publicity. It is a very bad move and I really think he has messed up. I don't think he knows how bad he has messed up yet and the fact that he got the coverage he wanted at The Wall then I believe he will be back.
There are men at The wall that have IQs ranging from 30 to 160 but one thing they all have in common is that every time they are alone and have a few minutes to think then they all remember what they seen and felt and they all know what they had to do. They don't know why they had to do it and they don't care but the nightmares they live with are real and the common thread that binds them is each other and one thing they do not need is some one coming in and messing with their stuff. It is all that some have left . It is all that some can remember and it is all that some will remember. It is the taste, the sound, and the smell that never goes away and always comes back when you are alone. It is something that you can not talk about to your kids or your parents or your wife ,you can only talk to each other. It is hard to explain but this man is not right for doing this and he better stop while the stopping is good because I don't think he knows what he is getting into. There are some in this world that are looking for a reason to leave that God awful smell behind and he may be that reason. I know this is a long post and most won't read it but I had to say it and I hope it makes sense to the ones that read it. If it don't, then screw it, I ain't made sense in 33 years and it ain't gonna piss me off. I ain't mad at Coach or any body else but don't ever fuck with my bro's. Some shit don't need to be fucked with.

[Superfluous_Nut]

What's the purpose of the memorial? I would say it's to acknowledge those that fought and died serving this country. It's there to say we remember your sacrafice.

The protestors were certainly acknowledging those lost in battle. They were certainly saying they remember the sacrafice. They just added a bit more -- that they don't want more American blood spilled. Seems like the appropriate place to me.

[Braves]

Originally posted by Superfluous_Nut
What's the purpose of the memorial? I would say it's to acknowledge those that fought and died serving this country. It's there to say we remember your sacrafice.

The protestors were certainly acknowledging those lost in battle. They were certainly saying they remember the sacrafice. They just added a bit more -- that they don't want more American blood spilled. Seems like the appropriate place to me.

I hope I say this right so you will understand me EJ.

A protester of war and a Vietnam vet will never get along. These are the same people that spat in their eyes in airports across the US. For one to think that they came to honor these fallen heroes is preposterous. And to believe that a Vet would welcome them on their hallowed grounds, is even more.

[Puttingood]

Man, I ain't trying to bust your nuts and you or anyone else has the right to protest any where you want to. But , use some common sense about this thing. Why the fuck pick on us ? Damn, man, we have suffered enough.
The purpose of The Memorial is to honor the men and women that were killed in Nam. My brothers and sisters died and 4 on that Wall I carried in my arms and seen countless others that I wish I could have carried and am sure that thousands others were carried by people just like me. Pick a fight with some one else, we all fought out and man we are tired. If it seems like the appropiate place for you to stage a demonstration then stage that muther. You and anybody else do what you feel is right. Do what you can live with and do the hell out of it. Don't go to the White House and protest, just keep protesting at The Wall. I guarantee you that some of my bro's will meet you there and they will meet any one else there that wants to. I just happen to be one of the few that can fill my life with other things but I am one of the few and damn if I can do it much longer. It is almost like "thank you ."

[Superfluous_Nut]

I guess this is a case of "niggardly" being a bad word cuz it upsets some people.

Putt, I'm not sure why you see this as an attack on vietnam vets. If anything, it's an attack on Bush and we all know he wasn't anywhere near Vietnam. I understand there were a lot of idiots that couldn't tell the difference between the war and warrior, but I think that time is over. The anti-war freaks of the time were more concerned with vietnamese lives than american ones.

Braves, are you saying that all Vietnam Vets are pro-war? I understand that they were horribly mistreated by a fringe of the anti-war movement, but I would hope they could seperate the idiots from the idea. It would be like black people being affraid of doctors cuz they wear white gowns.

[Stargazer]

Originally posted by Superfluous_Nut
Putt, I'm not sure why you see this as an attack on vietnam vets. If anything, it's an attack on Bush and we all know he wasn't anywhere near Vietnam. I understand there were a lot of idiots that couldn't tell the difference between the war and warrior, but I think that time is over.

Just curious, Nut, but how old are you? I'm probably older than you because I remember some of the ill will revolving around war protesters and Vietnam vets. Take my word for it, it will never be over.

[Puttingood]

Putt, I'm not sure why you see this as an attack on vietnam vets.

A---cause it was a protest staged at a Memorial to my dead Brothers and Sisters.

I understand that they were horribly mistreated by a fringe of the anti-war movement,

A fringe my big ole fuckin ass !




I guess this is a case of "niggardly" being a bad word cuz it upsets some people.

I assume this means the mention of Vietnam
Why involve it ? Why bring it up ? There are people out ther still dealing with it. Go to the Daughters of the Revoulution and fuck with them.
The only reason that David picked The Wall is because he thought there would be violence and his cause would be furthered. He was very close to getting his wish. Leave the men alone and let them come home. The only thing these men and women need is understanding and someone to say I love you. They don't need this bullshit and why lay it on them. The fight is over and has been for 30 years. People like David should leave us alone. I will apologize for all my brothers if y'all will just let them go. Contrary to popular belief, all Vets don't look like Sylvester Stallone. They look like you and me and they stand on street corners and they fill the prisons and the homeless shelters. Maybe they were destined to end up there before they went to Nam but one thing for damn sure is that no one has the right to disrespect them for what they did and no one has the right to speak for any one of them.
I am through with this because it is a sore spot with me but you can bet your ass that I am and will always be on the side of my brother and if his hand goes out then mine is there. I hope and Pray that some time in everyones life that they will know what that means.

[hasbeens99]

Originally posted by Superfluous_Nut
I guess this is a case of "niggardly" being a bad word cuz it upsets some people.

I think that's exactly the problem. The image of war protesters that most Vietnam vets have stamped in their minds is one of those who spat in their faces when they walked (or were carried) off the planes in 1975. Those who called them "baby killers" without knowledge or regard to what the soldiers had been through. It's word association, plain and simple I think.

FWIW, I tend to agree with you, Nut, that their purpose was not to further disgrace Vietnam vets, but to make a statement on an old still-healing wound that we, as Americans, do not want another wound like that one. I really don't believe the demonstrators had any ill will toward the old vets. What would be the point? I think they believed they were on the side of the vets, fighting for their cause. Unfortunately, I think intentions were misunderstood, and/or miscommunicated. Either way, the choice of location was a mistake. It defeated its own purpose.

[Braves]

Originally posted by Superfluous_Nut
Braves, are you saying that all Vietnam Vets are pro-war? I understand that they were horribly mistreated by a fringe of the anti-war movement, but I would hope they could seperate the idiots from the idea. It would be like black people being affraid of doctors cuz they wear white gowns.

I read where Putt addressed this eloquently, but since you addressed this to me, I also will respond.

There were no fringe movements. This was a common attitude by many folks in all categories. Students, teachers, Professors, community leaders, girlfriends and in some cases parents. This country turned their backs on Vietnam Vets. Unfortunately, it is something the new generation will never remember or understand, but for the Vietnam Vet; it is something they will never forget.

People always wonder why the South has the rally cry " Forget, Hell " and that was almost 150 years ago. For the Vietnam Vet, it was only yesterday.

[Puttingood]

but to make a statement on an old still-healing wound that we, as Americans, do not want another wound like that one.


I should leave this alone before I have to go back on my medication but I feel the need to apologize for all the wounds that those Americans you speak of must have suffered. Had to be rough to wake up and find the man at your door with Johnnys tags and a letter. Imagine how Johnny must have felt over there laying dead with his head over yonder and his feet on a jeep headed back to base. Of course that didn't matter, only the embarrasment and wounding of America mattered. I certainly apologize for that and can just imagine how it screwed up your morning coffee.
Y'all better leave these men alone. Ain't but about 20% left and 99% of those guys are set on "GO".
Pick another time and place to protest. I just got a feeling that these men ain't going for it regardless of how you sugercoat it.;)

[Superfluous_Nut]

Originally posted by Stargazer


Just curious, Nut, but how old are you? I'm probably older than you because I remember some of the ill will revolving around war protestors and Vietnam vets. Take my word for it, it will never be over.

I'm 33.

[Stargazer]

Originally posted by Superfluous_Nut


I'm 33.

I remember 33. :D

[Superfluous_Nut]

Originally posted by Puttingood
I guess this is a case of "niggardly" being a bad word cuz it upsets some people.

I assume this means the mention of Vietnam
Why involve it ? Why bring it up ? There are people out ther still dealing with it. Go to the Daughters of the Revoulution and fuck with them.
The only reason that David picked The Wall is because he thought there would be violence and his cause would be furthered. He was very close to getting his wish. Leave the men alone and let them come home. The only thing these men and women need is understanding and someone to say I love you. They don't need this bullshit and why lay it on them. The fight is over and has been for 30 years. People like David should leave us alone. I will apologize for all my brothers if y'all will just let them go. Contrary to popular belief, all Vets don't look like Sylvester Stallone. They look like you and me and they stand on street corners and they fill the prisons and the homeless shelters. Maybe they were destined to end up there before they went to Nam but one thing for damn sure is that no one has the right to disrespect them for what they did and no one has the right to speak for any one of them.
I am through with this because it is a sore spot with me but you can bet your ass that I am and will always be on the side of my brother and if his hand goes out then mine is there. I hope and Pray that some time in everyones life that they will know what that means.

I mentioned the niggardly thing because niggardly isn't an offensive word according to the dictionary, but some people find it offensive. So is it offensive? The protest we're talking about wasn't directed at soldiers -- fallen, retired or active. But in their way, they felt they were protesting on their behalf. You think they're worried about being killed in battle? Whose American blood are they worried about? So they're not the people who spit in anybody's face. They're not saying that vietnam vets are anything less than honorable. Why is it offensive?

You know something about the guy that put it together, so I'll defer to your experience with this guy to understand his motives. You seem to think he was looking for a violent confrontation. Maybe he was. It seemed to be near violence. Would you feel any different if it was somebody else?

[hasbeens99]

Originally posted by Puttingood
I should leave this alone before I have to go back on my medication but I feel the need to apologize for all the wounds that those Americans you speak of must have suffered.

Putt, I apologize -- I don't think I'm communicating well what I'm trying to say. The wounded I'm referring to are those directly impacted by the war itself. The families who got letters, and who never quite understood why Johnny had to go to this distant land they'd never heard of, nor wanted to. I'm referring to the soldiers who were yanked fresh from high school or college and sent to the other side of the world, only to be front row witnesses to the horrors of war. They came back scarred for life, whether they were in firefights or not. And to make matters worse, the home they so longed for, did not welcome them when they returned. They witnessed WWII vets treated to ticker tape parades and labeled heroes, but they were greeted with harsh insults and harsher judgment.

There are many, many more casualties of that war than are engraved on that Wall, and you know it far better than I. Those were the people I was referring to, Putt, collectively. I meant no disrespect.

[Superfluous_Nut]

What do you guys make of this?

http://www.vvaw.org/VVAWCommentary/nowarwithiraq.html

[Puttingood]

I know a lot about Dixon and that is why some chose not to be there. It was not near violent but he would have liked it to be that way and that is his reason for choosing The Wall. His purpose was not and had nothing to do with Nam. His whole purpose was to get air-time and the best way to do that is to fuck with Nam Vets. They will give you air-time. They will dance and sing and they will play the National Anthem and they will blow your brains out. They just don't really give a fuck. If it was not for my daughter and grandson then I would not really give a fuck. There are plenty that don't have a daughter and grandson and Dixon and the rest are playing on this. This game has been going on for a long time and these men have done nothing to deserve it. They better Pray to God that there is still people like me and others that have their respect. It is probably hard to understand that some people have nothing to live for and dieing is easier, but there are people out there that have nothing and want to leave. They use to teach your kids and they use to sit beside you in school. Then they lost it and I know why they lost it and that is a bond that will never be broken. We all deal with things differently and we all have a different opinion about what is serious and what ain't. I may not agree with how some of these guys act and God may have blessed me with a way to stay but one thing for sure , black ,white ,pink, or yellow, male , female, Army, Navy, Marine or Air Force, gay ,straight or crawling on your knees, they are my brothers and by the Grace of God they became that way and I shall never ever question why. It's the hand I was dealt and I will play that hand and I will defend my brothers as hard and long as it takes. That includes the ones that stand on the corner and beg for money. Dixon should leave Nam alone unless he wants these guys to go back there and in that case then I have to go to. Like I say, it is a bond that is hard to understand but shit happens.:)

[hasbeens99]

Originally posted by Puttingood
I know a lot about Dixon and that is why some chose not to be there. It was not near violent but he would have liked it to be that way and that is his reason for choosing The Wall. His purpose was not and had nothing to do with Nam. His whole purpose was to get air-time and the best way to do that is to fuck with Nam Vets.

My bad, Putt. I didn't know that. In that case, I refer back to my previous statement -- DCPD should've let the vets present handle the 'dispersement' of the demonstrators. :mad:

[Agent Smith]

Originally posted by Superfluous_Nut
What do you guys make of this?

http://www.vvaw.org/VVAWCommentary/nowarwithiraq.html

The article has some facts, but with a liberal spin (I'm not using the term liberal as derogatory.)

Bush is not looking to be a hero and he and his advisors know that this is politically a bad move. His father lost the election after having a high approval rating immediately after the war. The next war with Iraq will have some negative US consequences that will drive some political support away from Bush.

The article also makes it seem as if we just recently invaded 150 countries with our "imperial" military actions.

[Puttingood]

I know a lot about Dixon and that is why some chose not to be there.

Some people in Charlotte may remember that on Veterans day this same Mr. Dixon got into a shouting match in front of the Federal Court House with a 81 year old man and then asked the police to arrest this man for threatening him. I think that Dixon is about 35 or so. He wanted a 81 year old man put in jail because the man said he would kick his ass.:rolleyes:
As I said, I will hit this son of a bitch right dead between the eyes when the opportunity arises.

[Coach Micool]

Putt, I am so sorry I upset you, as if this thing weren't upsetting to you enough already. I am sorry others here who agree with you have upset you, trying to articulate how they feel, only maybe saying it the wrong way as well. I am sorry for those who try and coat it, trying to put for their percieved 'good intentiond' feelings, yet really just don't understand at all.
I am sure most all here agree wholeheartedly with everything you have said, myself included.
The thing upset me as well.

People who lost family members, and/or who had family members who came home and were treated like shit by the 'protesters' of the day understand.
Those who are too young, or didn't experience that will never understand.
Those who do have a clue, know that protesters of war, at any time, do not mix with Vietnam Vets, plain and simple. It's just too painful, period. Most vets who are still alive have never gotten over it-the war-and still live with it today: the war, the 'protesters', and the ill feelings toward them by many in the public., and they probably never will. Nor should we 'expect' them too. You'd think in this 'PC' America today, people would be more sensative of it. But then again, people with 'agendas' aren't sensative toward much of anything other than their one-track mentality of their agenda. And fit everything else neatly into their
little notion of reality.

I'm embarassed that here in our great country, there are many that just don't appreciate what all the Veterans of war have gone thru for us. It's a shame. And I'm sorry for you, all the Vets, and all the families and friends of those who have gone though it.

[hasbeens99]

Originally posted by Coach Micool
You'd think in this 'PC' America today, people would be more sensitive of it.

As I've grown into an adult, I've found that political correctness is more selective than it's supporters would lead you to believe.

[Puttingood]

I am not really upset and I durn sure appreciate your understanding. I have never been upset at protesters and the main reason I am upset at the guy that spit on me is because it was personal. I know that some people don't understand and I know that some of my people don't understand. I am on my peoples side even though it is not always nice or right. What is going on now is a devious mother fucker who is using my Wall and my people. It is a shame when we have to choose sides because of a wimpy little asshole like this. That's what he wanted and in this forum, he got it. that is very sad to me and to the memory of all I loved.

[Braves]

Originally posted by Coach Micool
. I am sorry others here who agree with you have upset you, trying to articulate how they feel, only maybe saying it the wrong way as well. I am sorry for those who try and coat it, trying to put for their percieved 'good intentiond' feelings, yet really just don't understand at all.

If I upset Putt, then I'm sorry for that because he is one of the good guys on this earth, but I meant every damn word I said. And if anybody implies that I don't understand it...tough...because I don't feel a need to explain it to anybody.

Some of the guys Putt was carrying were my classmates, my teammates and my friends.

[Puttingood]

Some of the guys Putt was carrying were my classmates, my teammates and my friends. posted by Braves

And if I needed to be carried then those same classmates and teammates and friends would have carried me. Thats the bond. Thats what is all about. ;)

[Superfluous_Nut]

Originally posted by Agent Smith


The article has some facts, but with a liberal spin (I'm not using the term liberal as derogatory.)

Bush is not looking to be a hero and he and his advisors know that this is politically a bad move. His father lost the election after having a high approval rating immediately after the war. The next war with Iraq will have some negative US consequences that will drive some political support away from Bush.

The article also makes it seem as if we just recently invaded 150 countries with our "imperial" military actions.

Actually, what I was getting at is that those folks are Vietnam Vets who are against the impending war in Iraq.

[Puttingood]

Actually, what I was getting at is that those folks are Vietnam Vets who are against the impending war in Iraq.

Nut--I am also against the impending war in Iraq. A lot more than the 25 people that protested the other day.

[Sportsgirl]

Originally posted by Superfluous_Nut
SG, why does military service grant somebody the right to protest at the memorial in your eyes? Does that also mean that only people who served should be making the actual decisions?

Being that it was the Vietnam Memorial and the people who were angered by the protest were indeed Vietnam veterans is significant. And, yes, the opinion of these veterans is very important to me and outweighs clueless protesters, whatever their intentions.

Originally posted by Coach Micool
People who lost family members, and/or who had family members who came home and were treated like shit by the 'protesters' of the day understand.

This sums it up for me, even though I was a baby when my dad went to Vietnam.

[Tiorted Snoil]

There was another article in the observer over the weekend...whatever group dixon is with has a 14 member board that had a meeting. Some of the vets attended the meeting and were able to speak. the board voted 11-3 not to hold any more protests at the memorial and many were quoted as saying it was a mistake to have it there in the 1st place.