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HighPoint49er
01-12-03, 09:18 AM
Poll: Majority oppose unilateral action against Iraq
By Martin Merzer, Knight Ridder Newspapers

WASHINGTON - With U.S. troops heading for the Persian Gulf, Americans say in overwhelming numbers that they oppose unilateral U.S. military action against Saddam Hussein's Iraq, according to a national Knight Ridder poll.

A robust majority of Americans - 83 percent - would support going to war if the United Nations backed the action and it was carried out by a multinational coalition. But without U.N. approval and allies, only about a third of the public would support a war with Iraq.

The poll highlights the Bush administration's political and diplomatic quandary.

Unambiguous evidence that Iraq has nuclear, biological or chemical weapons is a key requirement for the broad international support that Americans crave. Yet a majority of poll respondents, while convinced that Iraq harbors such weapons, said they doubted U.N. inspectors would find them.

Many survey respondents said President Bush had not effectively explained why military action might be required. Nearly 1 in 5 said they still did not believe that Iraq posed a serious threat to the United States.

"We have been given no compelling reasons for going to war," said Bill Quarton, 52, of Ann Arbor, Mich., who was among the poll respondents who said they were opposed to unilateral U.S. action against Iraq.

"Our government acts as if it knows something terribly important and we should go ahead with this, but we haven't seen anything to substantiate it. The whole scenario makes me very uncomfortable."

The survey by Princeton Survey Research Associates questioned 1,204 American adults Jan. 3-6, and has a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

Among the survey's other findings:

Most Americans do not want to rush into war. Sixty-eight percent of the respondents said the United States should continue to work toward achieving its goals in Iraq without war. Only 27 percent favored quick military action.

Still, more than 60 percent of those surveyed would support an eventual war if it was the only way to topple Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein or end the threat of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction.

Arguments against war are much less compelling to Americans than the arguments in favor of military action. In particular, the arguments that war with Iraq will hurt the economy, damage relations with our allies or divert attention and resources from the goal of tracking down those responsible for the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, don't carry much weight.

Two-thirds of the respondents said they thought they had a good grasp of the issues surrounding the Iraqi crisis, but closer questioning revealed large gaps in that knowledge. For instance, half of those surveyed said one or more of the Sept. 11 terrorist hijackers were Iraqi citizens. In fact, none was.

The informed public is considerably less hawkish about war with Iraq than the public as a whole. Those who show themselves to be most knowledgeable about the Iraq situation are significantly less likely to support military action, either to remove Saddam from power or to disarm Iraq.

Asked to rank the various threats facing the United States, more than twice as many respondents (49 percent of the total) chose al-Qaida as the greatest peril as chose Iraq. A similar margin thinks that dealing with al-Qaida should be the nation's top foreign-policy priority.

Uncertainty, ambivalence

With war possibly only weeks away and another crisis brewing with North Korea, the survey found that Americans exhibit considerable uncertainty and ambivalence about world affairs.

Among other things, they are evenly divided about the president's effectiveness in explaining what's at stake in Iraq and why U.S. military force might be employed.

Forty-eight percent said he had not clearly explained his rationale for a war against Iraq; 46 percent think he has.

The result shows some slippage for the president since September, when other polls asked a similar question. Then, 52 percent thought the president had clearly explained his position; 37 percent disagreed.

"He's the best," said Jose Velez, 25, of Lehighton, Pa., near Allentown. "After Sept. 11, President Bush didn't take any chances, and this is part of that."

Dan Yeager, 24, of Grand Ledge, Mich., saw it differently.

"I think going after Iraq is just for Bush's own popularity and to finish off his father's work," Yeager said. "He's not clear about why he wants to go to war. I think he just wants to do it and he's just saying, `Back me.' "

Yeager and many other Americans also remain worried about the economy.

As a group, the survey's respondents were evenly split when asked whether foreign threats or the economy should be the administration's top priority.

"We're going to spend a lot of money sending all these troops to Iraq and right now we have a problem of our own with the economy," said Lydia Sepulveda, 41, of Weston, Fla., outside Miami. "A lot of people are without work."

Still, the 27 percent who think Iraq poses the most serious foreign threat are more likely than others to want the White House to devote most of its time to an overseas crisis rather than the economy. Fifty-two percent of those people feel that way.

Only 42 percent of those who think that al-Qaida or North Korea poses the most serious foreign threat want the White House to place those issues over the economy.

Little support for war against Korea

When it comes to North Korea, a majority thinks the United States is imperiled by that enigmatic, hard-line regime and that America should maintain or enhance its military presence in South Korea. But there is little support for U.S. military action against North Korea, a nation known to possess nuclear weapons.

Seventy-nine percent of those surveyed said the issue should be resolved diplomatically; only 15 percent said the United States should prepare to take immediate military action against North Korea.

"I'm a war veteran, and I don't believe in going to war over other people's problems," said Robert Wilkinson, 75, of Ojai, Calif., near Ventura. He is a veteran of World War II.

Returning to the Iraqi crisis, a commanding 91 percent of those surveyed believe that Saddam Hussein is concealing nuclear, chemical or biological weapons. Sixty-five percent think U.N. inspectors aren't likely to find those weapons.

If war proves necessary, Americans seem willing to tolerate a long military presence in Iraq. Sixty-six percent of those surveyed said they would support eventual military action even if it required U.S. troops to remain in Iraq for five years.

The survey also demonstrated that many Americans remain altruistic and idealistic. They worry that the Iraqi crisis could mark a fundamental shift in American attitudes toward war.

Two-thirds of the respondents said Saddam's record of using chemical or biological weapons against his own people provided a good reason for going to war, the same number that cited American self-defense against a terrorist attack.

Forty-six percent of those surveyed said the possibility of a high casualty rate among Iraqi civilians was a good reason not to go to war.

The nation is evenly divided over the Bush administration's advocacy of pre-emptive strikes, those that are launched before an enemy attacks U.S. interests at home or abroad. Forty-three percent say the policy violates American ideals and could establish a dangerous precedent.

"We should be the country that sets the standards," Quarton said. "This amounts to punishing the criminal before the crime is committed."

Forty-five percent support pre-emptive strikes.

"If somebody says he's going to kill me, am I going to wait until he does?" Velez said. "There have been a lot of threats. How many people have to die over here before we do what we have to do?"

Political differences

As one might expect, support for war among Democrats and independents is much more conditional than support among Republicans.

While Republicans widely endorse the policy of pre-emptive strikes and would support war with Iraq with less than the full support of our allies, Democrats and independents tend to see pre-emptive strikes as bad policy and make their support for war contingent on U.N. backing.

Many Americans are willing to support the use of nuclear weapons, if necessary, but an equal number remains extremely discomforted by that concept.

Forty-six percent would approve of a U.S. nuclear response if Iraq used chemical or biological weapons; 45 percent would not want the Pentagon to respond with nuclear bombs.

Asked if Israel would be justified in responding with nuclear devices to an Iraqi chemical or biological attack, Americans felt quite differently. Sixty percent said Israel would be justified; 30 percent disagreed.

"It would be a grave error," Quarton said about the use of nuclear devices under any circumstances. "Two wrongs do not make a right. It would poison a large part of the world. It would create hatreds that might take centuries to resolve."

The survey also suggested that the factual underpinnings of many of the nation's opinions are shaky.

Nearly 1 in 4 respondents thinks the Bush administration has publicly released evidence tying Iraq to the planning and funding of the Sept. 11 attacks, and more than 1 in 3 respondents didn't know or refused to answer.

No such evidence has been released.

HighPoint49er
01-12-03, 09:19 AM
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HighPoint49er
01-12-03, 09:19 AM
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HighPoint49er
01-12-03, 09:24 AM
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Agent Smith
01-12-03, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by HighPoint49er
Poll: Majority oppose unilateral action against Iraq
By Martin Merzer, Knight Ridder Newspapers

Nearly 1 in 5 said they still did not believe that Iraq posed a serious threat to the United States.



This statistic means that less than 20% believe that Iraq is not a serious threat.

Then 83% would support the war if there is an international agreement, but then drop to 33% if the US acts alone.

So most people polled do not think the US should go to war unless other countries say it is OK, but those same people believe there is enough of a serious threat to start a war.

reb
01-12-03, 02:24 PM
I have a serious question.

The inspectors can find nothing, not even chemical or radioactive traces SO FAR.

The U.S. says it has intelligence that Iraq has all these bad things.

The U.S. says it cannot tell the inspectors where to look because it would give away to much intelligence gathering information to the enemy.

Now you and I both know this is bullshit. First, why gather intelligence and not use it if you have it. Second, I believe I could tell the inspectors using brail or something where to go and they could just add it to there list of stops.

If you want the world to be with you you have to show your cards. Otherwise it's all a bluff.

I'm from Missouri, show me.


note to any one who responds to this: If you can't answer this without republican retoric then don't answer.

WilliamJ
01-12-03, 03:45 PM
Now you and I both know this is bullshit. First, why gather intelligence and not use it if you have it.

I bet nickels to doughnuts that we have given Blick all the info he needs, I believe Blick inept. My understanding is that they have yet to inspect Military facilities, and the Iraqis are given tons of notice before an inspection.

Also in reguards to intelligence, I feel certain that the operatives we have gathering this intelligence have been there for sometime and comprimising them for the sake of Blick would be counter productive. I can only assume that the US Intelligence agencies are pulling their hair out over Blick and his cronies ineptness. I understand your cinicism but the days of total BS propiganda are over, it is too easy for the media to confirm BS and they are drooling to do so. That being said there is still the party retoric on both sides we have to sift through and that is just the nature of politics.

We are going in, it will be a hyper-war and minimal US/Coallition casualties will take place.

While we do this N.Korea will just rattle their sabres some more waiting for our money.

reb
01-12-03, 04:06 PM
Not good enough William. Like I said, if you want the world with you you have to show your cards. If we are going to change things in Iraq we do not need the operatives anymore. They have done their job. Bring them in and they will not be compromised. It's damned A B C. If the inspectors are not doing their job then show the world that they are not. Don't just bitch.

It is BS until you show me something. Hey, all I get is BS about everything else, why is this different. Do you believe everything the government tells you. No, you just want to kick some arab ass and feel good. I do too but there are others more deserving getting a fucking pass.

Like Lott sez... let's call a spade a spade.

Agent Smith
01-12-03, 07:09 PM
I am honestly trying to respond without any conservative spin (this post at least.)

I agree that the current administration has not done a good job selling the public on this war. I would assume that either just before the war or while it is happening, the damning evidence against Iraq will be released. The US should not have to inform the public at this very moment if it will damage us militarily, but eventually they will if they want public support.


There are people in high levels of our government (and foreign governments) who claim to have classified information that indicates that Iraq is a threat to the USA right now. I do not believe they have anything to gain by frightening the public with the term "serious threat", so this adds to their credibility in my view.

I also know that Saddam is an insane individual and the world would be safer without him. The degree of safety is debatable.

reb
01-12-03, 07:28 PM
I do not see how proving the naysayers wrong will damage the US militarily.... I mean really we have spent trillions on a military that was going to defeat russia in a world war. We have all of our toys over there and Iraq has on one third of of a country left and an army that can't fight it's way out of a paper bag. I think we can win this thing even if we gave them our plans. I am not going to believe anything if we take over the country and THEN produce evidence. That to me is just like putting the gun in the hand of the dead man.

Agent Smith
01-12-03, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by reb
I do not see how proving the naysayers wrong will damage the US militarily

If we mark a chemical weapons plant with an X on a map, this will give Iraq the knowlege that we will try to blow this up. They could move the things that we want destroyed and/or could fortify their defense of this target. Iraq has rebuilt their military since the last war and I would not want to give them even a slight advantage over zero information.

reb
01-12-03, 07:49 PM
OK lets cut to the chase. We have satalites that go over Iraq every three hours. We see e v e r y t h i n g, our cameras can read a watch. If something moves WE know it. Those lil ragheads are not putting anything over on us. If so my tax dollars are being wasted. I have been lied to too much to believe anything except what I can see and you better show it to me BEFORE you could poissibly salt it.

Rumpeltiltspin
01-13-03, 10:31 AM
I'm sure the Bush Admin, including D.Rumsnfeld, are personally gonna contact you in person or by e-mail, possibly even on this board, and show you all the evidence they have against Iraq before we go in, just for your approval, Reb.

Truth is, I believe we know what Iraq has because past US Admins', all the way back to Reagan, have sold/given either WMD tech or WMD to Iraq.

The Brain
01-14-03, 02:25 AM
I think Rebs right and its a bluff... if they had cards to pla they could speak privately with otehr world leaders and we would have a solid backing... even without releasing the info to the mass public... and I would ASSUME in intelligent government seeking the backing of other nations would do... but with other nations STILL not stepping to our side we are standing here looking like a handfull of dumbasses... and if NOTHING comes from this it'll make the Saddam problem 1-million times larger... because if we look wrong in the end not only will we look bad... there will be less heat on Iraq and they at that time WILL begin taking more liberties and we won't be able to stop them because we are crying wolf now

Rumpeltiltspin
01-14-03, 09:23 AM
Just a thought, and for the record, I don't WANT to go to war- Hell, America's got enough of a black-eye in the region.
But our intel at the moment, and our evidence may not be shown to the public OR ESPECIALLY other countries because it might compromise other intel we have possibly IN and about those other countries you refer to.

BTW, I was wondering: How many times should we let Saddam get away with non-compliance? What good is the UN if all countries aren't held in compliance to it's laws/treaties? Why have it at all?
And most of the countries who are not backing us, have large money interests in Iraq, and fear losing their investments/assests. Is that a good reason to go along with their wishes? Do we have to have 100% agreement with all the UN nations on this? Does anybody dissagree that a decent democratic government in Iraq may be good for the region/word down the road the way things are going over there? How about good for the people of Iraq? I mean it's not like we're taking over that country and making it a province of the United States.

The Brain
01-14-03, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by Rumpeltiltspin
Do we have to have 100% agreement with all the UN nations on this? if we go in without UN approval we risk violating UN treaties and constituting an independent act of war... at that point Iraq can petition the UN for defense against the US... which considering we were defiant against their wish they may give to Iraq...

...I have a question though... suppose... just for the sake of supposing that you are 100% wrong and we have nothing to back us... no TRUE information... just Bush trying to prove himself to have the biggest set... and it turns out he has nothing to back him up... what do you do then??? What do you think of a government that has in one move totally undermind the US total reputation... possibly put our OWN people it risk of war... are our people's live's so useless that you can justify the curren administrations decisions.

vpkozel
01-14-03, 02:33 PM
Reb - let me see if I can try to get you to see it the way that I do and please let me know which of these points is not true.
Iraq has sympathizers on the UN security coucil (France, Russia, China)
Iraq would not allow inspectors into their country that were intent on finding WMD and would use all means (suprise inspections, interviewing scientists out of the country, etc.)
The UN security council had to put inspectors in Iraq or face the factt that they would become a marginal figure if the US acted alone
The people chosen to be inspectors were chosen by the UN security council

So based on those assumptions, why would the US share information with a person who is not intent on doing his job (finding WMD) and who owes his position to a group of countries sympathetic to Iraq (and who in turn might send that information back to Iraq)? Worse, could be that we are already sharing info with Blix, but he choses not to act on it. Your last post is not accurate. If 9/11 taught us anything it should have been that technological spying is no substitute for having operatives on the ground. To that end, there is no way (short of Saddam transporting an uncovered bomb with the sign "this is a nuclear bomb" on it) that we could ever prove that he is building WMD by technological means alone. The man is not stupid, and I for one believe that we underestimate him at our own peril. What I find most unbeleiveable about these pols is exactly what Agent Smith wrote. 83% of the people believed that he has WMD, yet only 20% would act alone. What that says to me is that our action (or lack thereof) is predicated on HOW we go about acting, not whether we are right or wrong. That is where pc thinking has taken us, and that is sad.