TBR Instant Classic: Ask Applejack

[Braves]

AJ attended Spartanburg Methodist. Was drafted by the Pirates and played for them as well as the Dodgers, Reds and I believe the Orioles. ( correct me if I am wrong AJ )

He was a successful pitcher in MLB and one of his biggest accomplishments was beating Randy Johnson ( I believe more than once ). He devotes his present time with his family and has a daughter who is an excellent basketball player. AJ will be working with someone's organization ( perhaps On Deck ) in the near future and anyone who gets a chance to spend some time with him will walk away amazed by his knowledge. He is one of a few people on the board whom can explain the process for a student athlete from HS all the way to the SHOW.

So this thread is titled " Ask AJ "

I'll start with the first question:

AJ- What is your opinion between the talent level between JUCO and let's say a D1 program? and how were you scouted?

[Applejack]

Originally posted by Braves
AJ attended Spartanburg Methodist. Was drafted by the Pirates and played for them as well as the Dodgers, Reds and one I believe the Orioles. ( correct me if I am wrong AJ )

He was a successful pitcher in MLB and one of his biggest accomplishments was beating Randy Johnson ( I believe more than once ). He devotes his present time with his family and has a daughter who is an excellent basketball player. AJ will be working with someone's organization ( perhaps On Deck ) in the near future and anyone who gets a chance to spend some time with him will walk away amazed by his knowledge. He is one of a few people on the board whom can explain the process for a student athlete from HS all the way to the SHOW.

So this thread is titled " Ask AJ "

I'll start with the first question:

AJ- What is your opinion between the talent level between JUCO and let's say a D1 program? and how were you scouted?

Thanks Braves. I was originally drafted by the Dodgers and signed free agent with the Reds and then the Tigers. Then traded to the Pirates along with Darnell Coles.

To try and answer your question, JC players attend the college for various reasons whether it be academic, athletic or just by preference.
When I was coming along you could not get drafted until your Jr or Senior year of college unless you attended a JC you were eligible to be drafted at anytime.
SMC was and still is a baseball factory. There were several players on my team that were sent there to play from D1 schools because they were going to be needed at their school of choice real soon and the coaches wanted them to get in as many innings as possible on an escalated level. Therefore, we had (6) D1 players playing on our JC team.
There were (8) players drafted from that team. We started out not being ranked at all and ended up in the top 10 in the nation.
We were one game from going to the JC world series held in Grand Junction , Colorado.
We scrimmaged several D1 schools and beat them or held our own. We were never beaten by more than 3 runs against D1 competition.
I'll hit you back in the morning. Gotta go!!!

[NCBBallFan]

Wonderful thread guys:

AJ, as a former pitcher you've had games where you didn't have your "A" game, everybody does.

Mentally, how did you aproach your outing and be sucessful when you didn't have your best stuff ("B" Game) or best command ("C" Game) or both ("Let me just get through this one" Game)?

--------------------------------------------------------------------
"You have two hemispheres in your brain - a left and a right side. The left side controls the right side of your body and right controls the left half. It's a fact. Therefore, left-handers are the only people in their right minds."

[Applejack]

Originally posted by NCBBallFan
Wonderful thread guys:

AJ, as a former pitcher you've had games where you didn't have your "A" game, everybody does.

Mentally, how did you aproach your outing and be sucessful when you didn't have your best stuff ("B" Game) or best command ("C" Game) or both ("Let me just get through this one" Game)?

Good question NCBBall!
Basically you are going to have these game a little more often than when you have your "best stuff".
These games are the games when you really find out if you are a pitcher in stead of just a thrower.
A thrower can get by with just natural ability. A pitcher is smart enough to get people out. The mentality and approach is totally different.
A thrower does not care who's hitting or what part of the line-up is up to bat, his mentality is "here's my best stuff, hit it if you can".
A pitcher analyzes (sp) the particular hitter from previous at bats or game film and sets him up to get him out. A pitcher should always get with his catcher between innings to go over the batters he's faced.
Here's the difference in mentality, a thrower wants to throw 3, 4,5 pitches per batter to strike him out.
A pitcher will take one pitch, change-up outside to a dead pull hitter, to get a ground ball out to the shortstop.
Now, if you get a combination of a pitcher that's got good stuff, the opposing team can forget it.
:D

[Braves]

This is a sensitive question, but on I know you have strong feelings about AJ. Who should call a game. The catcher, the pitcher or the coach and why?

[Applejack]

Originally posted by Braves
This is a sensitive question, but on I know you have strong feelings about AJ. Who should call a game. The catcher, the pitcher or the coach and why?

At what level are we talking B?

[Braves]

OOPS.. sorry AJ..... High School

[Applejack]

Braves,
I think at the high school level it all depends on the maturity level of the pitcher.
Most guys at the high school level are throwers. If they are truly gifted it does not matter if the coach calls the pitch or not because they are basically getting by off natural God given talent.
Scouts like to see kids that challenge hitters and succeed because if they have the God given talent... you can always teach them how to pitch.
Let me put it this way, I've seen ** pitch on the side. He has the talent but he also has an idea as to what he wants to do with a hitter and where he wants to put the ball when doing it. I'd let ** call their game out there and analize the game afterwards by going over with him the hitters he faced and game film so that all season will be a learning process whether he wins or loses, same scenario.

[NCBBallFan]

At the tender age of 13, we started letting our pitchers call their own game in order to get that painful learning experience out of the way.

It is a learning experience. For awhile, they seem to fall in love with a pitch... after a few years, they just try to get batters out, but it takes awhile.

The hardest education is on the catchers. Most haven't pitched before, don't have an idea of how to get batters out, don't try to read hitters in the box (stance, distance from plate, where the knob is), don't look at the hitter AND the situation so they start with the #1 on every hitter.

A lot of HS age pitchers don't have an idea of setting up a hitter. I like at HS for the coach (if he's good) to call the pitches and, for certain pitchers, allow them to shake off. It will remove a lot of stress of having to call a game, but allow the pitcher freedom to work the hitters.

Catchers develop this skill later. "If you believe your catcher is intelligent and you know that he has considerable experience, it is a good thing to leave the game almost entirely in his hands." ...Bob Feller

[Applejack]

"It is a learning experience. For awhile, they seem to fall in love with a pitch' NCBballFan

This is one of the reasons that I personally would call pitches at this age level.
The fact remains that sooner or later a young pitcher of this age group could possibly develop a breaking pitch of some kind and fall in love with it. His arm more than likely can't tolerate the pressure of throwing a breaking ball and possibly ruin an arm.

At the major league level, catchers suggest what they would like for a pitcher to throw. Granted if the pitcher is fairly young and the catcher has vast experience then logically the young pitcher will go with the experienced catcher. This is one of the reasons I suggest all pitchers and catchers sit together between innings briefly to discuss hitters, situations, pitches etc... so that they will both be on the same page.

If this has worked for you in the past go for it. Do not fix a clock if it is'nt broken.;)

[Braves]

I agree for the most part. It seems that the hardest transition for a young pitcher is going from a power thrower at a young age to a smart pitcher...and it would seem that the only way to develop would be through experience.

I know of a young man who studies a batter while he is on deck. He may throw the first pitch, the first at bat, just to see his swing. He reads their emotions on the bench, at the plate and where they are standing in the box. The joy he receives in pitching is the chess match between himself and the batters. He doesn't like a coach to call his game, because if he doesn't like a particular pitch he still must throw ......and guess who gets the blame if it is crushed.

I don't know, but where I agree with AJ 100 percent is the chemistry between the catcher and pitcher. It's kind of hard for a coach to see the intricacies a catcher and pitcher see, while the batter is in the box....but what do I know? I ain't a pitcher!!

[Applejack]

In my last post please note and put emphasis on the word suggest.
The catcher suggest what he thinks the pitcher should throw but ultimately the pitcher makes the decision.
Braves is right, after all is said and done, the W or the L goes next to the pitcher's name.

[Prepster]

Applejack:
How did you tend to deal with the inevitable situation when you had your "stuff" as a pitcher, but the defense seemed to have never seen a baseball before? What would you say to your teammates following their error(s), and how did you handle it mentally, yourself?

[Applejack]

Prepster, delicate issue.
When pitching one of the most important things is composure.
When a pitcher is on the mound he has to project the image that he has everything under control. If he becomes rattled, the opposing team will try to capitalize by creating distractions of some manner.
If a pitcher wants to ask a player about a particular play that is in question, I would reccommend that he do it tactfully during the game, and in private. You do not want to blast a player during a game, it will only hinder his performance either mentally or physically. Always remember that baseball is a team sport and you need your teammates to be at their best mentally and physically. I can go into more detail but I want to leve you with this:
One of the most encouraging things that happened to me was when I was playing winter ball in Puerto Rico. The pirates major league pitching coach was there to see me pitch.
It was in a close game around the 6th inning and I was doing well. Score was like 3-1 in favor of the good guys.
Rex Hudler was playing shortstop for us and it was one out in the sixth. I worked my butt off to get Roberto Alomar to hit a routine ground ball to Hudler at short. Rex booted it and Alomar was on 1st base safely. The ball ended up right in front of Hudler and instead of getting all pissed off after he knew he had blown an important play, he simply picked the ball up, walked to the mound where I was, looked me dead in the eye and said, "You are pitching your butt off and I quite simply blew that one. Make 'em hit it to me again, C'mon!!!" And he slammed the ball in my glove and jogged to short and screamed" Make 'em hit it to me again!!"
I had a nasty sinker working that day and was getting ready to face a right handed batter. Guess what? Ground ball up the middle, Hudler dives face first to make the stop, back-hands the ball to Carlos Baerga at second and they turn the double play and we are out of the inning.
In the dugout I tell Rex, "nice play Hud, Guess you do not like to make the easy ones." He replied, "My job is to make the plays when given the opportunity, when you pitch like you are pitching today, I'll run through a brick wall for ya."

[Braves]

This is a two part question AJ. You knew somebody would bring this up at some point. How did you get the nickname Applejack?

And a more serious question; Which theory do you subscribe? " Tall and Fall " or " Drop and Drive " and why.

[Applejack]

Originally posted by Braves
This is a two part question AJ. You knew somebody would bring this up at some point. How did you get the nickname Applejack?

And a more serious question; Which theory do you subscribe? " Tall and Fall " or " Drop and Drive " and why.

Applejack arrived when I was maybe 6 years old. i used to eat the cereal everyday. I don't know if most of you remember but the slogan song was "A bowl a day keeps the bullies away".
My older next door neighbor started calling me that and it stuck.
My original nickname was Pookie. :D

I prefer the drop and drive because it forces the pitcher to utilize his legs in his delivery. It teaches them through repetition to use their body more and not have to depend on arm strength alone.
Plus it may add to your fastball with the leg usage and push off of the rubber.

[Braves]

Whew...just think..this thread could have been titled " Ask Pookie"

Just kiddin' AJ :D

[Prepster]

What a terrific story...and response...on what is, admittedly, a "delicate" topic.

It's great to have your perspective on the board!

[Braves]

Did you ever have a "dead" arm? What are some things you learned to help a pitcher keep or build their arm strength?

[Applejack]

Originally posted by Braves
Did you ever have a "dead" arm? What are some things you learned to help a pitcher keep or build their arm strength?

The only time that I was ever hurt to the point that I could not pitch was one year in A ball.
What a dreadful summer, I was in Lodi, California of all places.

I had to fly to Los Angeles to see Dr. Jobe. For those of you that do not or cannot remember Dr. Jobe, he was the man that performed the Tommy John surgery.
He said that I had a slight tear in my rotator cuff.
I had an intensive rehab program of long toss, light weights, more long toss, surgical tubing exercises and even more long toss.
The initial part of the rehab program was to not even pick up a baseball for 2 weeks.
I was blessed to not have any serious injuries for a 12 year career. I was on the healthy DL for short periods. Get my drift.;)

[Braves]

Yep ;)

Oh and it's almost Basketball time!!!

[Mudcat]

What is your feeling and knowledge about pitch counts for 17-18 yr old high school pitchers. What factors come into play, conditioning, weather, days rest, etc.

[Intimidator Coach]

Originally posted by Applejack


The only time that I was ever hurt to the point that I could not pitch was one year in A ball.
What a dreadful summer, I was in Lodi, California of all places.

I had to fly to Los Angeles to see Dr. Jobe. For those of you that do not or cannot remember Dr. Jobe, he was the man that performed the Tommy John surgery.
He said that I had a slight tear in my rotator cuff.
I had an intensive rehab program of long toss, light weights, more long toss, surgical tubing exercises and even more long toss.
The initial part of the rehab program was to not even pick up a baseball for 2 weeks.
I was blessed to not have any serious injuries for a 12 year career. I was on the healthy DL for short periods. Get my drift.;)

Wonder how many players ever use the Jobe's exercise program.
I know my son does.

[NCBBallFan]

I don't know where I first read that the three most important tools for a pro pitcher were (in order) location, movement and velocity.

From what you see in drafting players and scholarship offers, it seems that pro-scouts and college scouts are looking for (in order) velocity, movement and then location.

Why the difference?

[Braves]

I know this is AJ's thread, but I would say that every scout (college and Pro) feel they can teach mechanics and location, but they can't teach god-given talent; Hence, velocity and movement become their primary focus.

[Applejack]

Originally posted by Mudcat
What is your feeling and knowledge about pitch counts for 17-18 yr old high school pitchers. What factors come into play, conditioning, weather, days rest, etc.

Pitch count at the high school level is very important. Let me rephrase that, pitch count at any level is very important.
A pitchers arm needs rest because the motion of the pitcher's arm is an unnatural movement. (for the most part)
The movement forces the pitcher to use muscles in his arm in an unnatural manner thereby causing stiffness and soreness in the arm.
A pitchers pitch count depends on the physical shape the pitcher is in. If he is in very good shape and it is mid season he could possibly withstand 100-150 pitches per game.
It will depend on the amount of pitches thrown per inning and if he is a starter or reliever.
Very delicate matter, this is where a coach or manager should know his pitcher very well or use good judgement if he does not know the pitcher very well ie... an all star game.

[Prepster]

If you'd heard Tom House this past weekend, you'd have heard the multitude of sound, physiological reasons why he insists that pitchers try to regulate their pitchcount in the 75-pitch-per-outing range...along with the admonition that they NEVER exceed 110. He also affirms what you're saying, AJ: that the 75/110 pitchcount thresholds hold up at ALL levels of baseball.

By the way, if you missed his clinic this year, you need to start planning now for the one he intends to do again next year. It's an extraordinary opportunity to learn from one of the masters of the game.

[Braves]

Yeah Prepster. I talked to one of the players that attended and they said it was by far the most informative clinic about pitching he has ever attended.

Can you comment about what you observed? I understand you were there Fri. and Sunday ( You can't hide from me, I've got spies everywhere :D )

Also, was the price of the clinic reasonable?!

[Prepster]

You DO get around, Braves! But, then, we already KNEW that!

From my perspective, it was great fun to see a guy who (1) works with the very best pitchers in the game today and (2) has fully committed himself to using the most advanced techniques available to understand and explain what makes the best pitchers successful spend the weekend teaching a bunch of high school-aged pitchers. It was my impression that he was getting as much enjoyment and satisfaction from that as though he were working with Randy Johnson, Robb Nen, Mark Prior, or his former student, Nolan Ryan.

I couldn't begin to do justice to the specifics. What you need to know is that this is a guy who looks at pitching from its most holistic perspective and seeks to pass along all he can on a wide range of related topics: training, warm up, recovery, mechanics, nutrition, and the mental/emotional aspect. In the preparation/training/mechanics phases, he takes them through a lot of drills; so that they come away with a first-hand knowledge of how it feels to do what he's teaching.

Yes, the seminar is pricey at $350 . However, you get this guy's full attention for approximately 20 hours over the course of the weekend, and the amount of information and personalized instruction couldn't be greater. In retrospect, I think it's worth every cent.

If you're interested in learning more about him and some of the efforts he has underway, here are a couple of links:

TomHouse.com (http://www.tomhouse.com/home.htm)

National Pitching Association (http://www.nationalpitching.com)

[Braves]

Originally posted by Prepster
In retrospect, I think it's worth every cent.

Yes, I thought so too..he's one of a kind. I sure hope he will come back

[Applejack]

I hope you guys stay as interested as you are now.
I know I'm not suppose to be soliciting but I have a plan in the works for the last two years that will be of great benefit to not only players but coaches and parents.
Possibly in September of this year I will be bringing to Charlotte some former major league players, coaches and scouts for one weekend.
You will receive professional instruction on the mechanics of baseball in most all facets of the game and scouts will get a bird's eye view to evaluate talent.
There will also be some college coaches and scouts there.
When it all unfolds I will announce it here.
Braves, I know I have not talked to you about this but I will definitely need your help.
I'll keep you all posted.

[Braves]

Thanks AJ...this sounds great!

[fatman]

AJ, you are talking about conducting a clinic.

I have a son who is currently a sopohomore at a D1 college; he's been told that he should be starting weekday games.

My question is, is it appropriate for a player to get coaching outside his program? I wonder if there might be a conflict if the outside coach has a different philosopy about mechanics and conditioning.

I know that my son had some coaching at a local clinic his senior year of high school. When I went to his college to see him pitch for the first time, I noticed that his current coach, a former major league pitcher, had changed his mechanics quite a bit. It took him until mid summer season to regain the velocity he had as a high school senior. However, it must have had a benificial effect on his arm, for he never experienced any pain at all. During his summer team's playoffs, he pitched 14 strong innings over a period of 18 hours.

Comments?

[Braves]

Great question fatman. AJ is usually not here on the weekends. He's escorting his family around the State doing volunteer work. The man is a Saint

[NCBBallFan]

Can you tell us what life was like living and traveling in the minors? Do you have any good stories that you could share?

[Applejack]

Originally posted by fatman
AJ, you are talking about conducting a clinic.

I have a son who is currently a sopohomore at a D1 college; he's been told that he should be starting weekday games.

My question is, is it appropriate for a player to get coaching outside his program? I wonder if there might be a conflict if the outside coach has a different philosopy about mechanics and conditioning.

I know that my son had some coaching at a local clinic his senior year of high school. When I went to his college to see him pitch for the first time, I noticed that his current coach, a former major league pitcher, had changed his mechanics quite a bit. It took him until mid summer season to regain the velocity he had as a high school senior. However, it must have had a benificial effect on his arm, for he never experienced any pain at all. During his summer team's playoffs, he pitched 14 strong innings over a period of 18 hours.

Comments?

Hello Fatman and sorry for the late response.
My philosophy on this matter is like this.
Pitching coaches and instructors will differ in opinion from time to time.
The way I go about my work is to suggest and not demand whatever I see is needed and if it does not work for the individual then go another route.
Example is I once had a pitching coach on the professional level that wanted everybody to have the Tom Seaver delivery. Good form and fundamental delivery with everyone throwing over the top. This was absolutely useless for me because it took away from some of my strengths and flattened out my fastball. You see I'm lefthanded with a 3/4 delivery and throw somewhat across my body creating a good hard natural sinker with a two seamer.
I'll even tell you his name is Claude Osteen.
But another instructor, Sandy Koufax, in the same camp taught me to keep the same delivery and how to throw a CUT FASTBALL to offset the sinker. This method worked very well for me in that you may get smart hitters who recognize fastball counts and sit on the sinker away to a right handed hitter and drive the ball to the opposite field. But with the cutter in my arsenal it allowed me to keep the hitters honest because I would bust them in on those counts and create a lot of firewood.
The answer is go with what works best for your son and gather as much information as possible.
I said in another thread that Dave Stewart once told me to try it, if it don't work for you go with what got you here.

[Applejack]

Originally posted by NCBBallFan
Can you tell us what life was like living and traveling in the minors? Do you have any good stories that you could share?

Living in the minor leagues is no bed of roses. At the lower levels traveling was terrible. I remember once when I was in Lodi California the bus was so bad that there were times we would literally have to get off the bus and push it up the hill, no joke.
We would take turns sleeping in the luggage racks. Meal money was like 6 or 7 dollars per day.
My first year I was in Lethbridge, Alberta Canada. 19 years old, first time away from home making $600.00 per month before taxes and paying $150.00 per month to live in the basement of a family's home.
I have so many stories that I could tell but I will get around to some of them later.
My favorite places that I played in the minors were Vero Beach Florida and believe it or not Buffalo NY. :saywhat:
One story I will share with you is I was in big league camp with the Pirates and pitching against the Cardinals at ST.Pete.
This is when the Cards had all the speedsters in Coleman, Ozzie, Mcgee, Oquendo etc...
Coleman's on first, one out and I'm facing Ozzie. He slaps a ground ball between 1st and 2nd and instinctively when a ball is hit to a pitcher's left he habitually goes to cover 1st (force of habit).
I take 3 hard steps towards 1st when the ball goes through and I wheel to go backup the throw to 3rd because Coleman is going to try a 1st to 3rd on the single to right.
As I turn I realize I've got a lot of ground I have to make up to get into position for the backup so I'm sprinting to get there. I cross the mound and look back to see how the play is developing and to check Coleman, meanwhile, Eric Greg who is umpiring 3rd base is caught out of position is sprinting to wards me , yes his 300 plus pounds was sprinting, to get into position to make the call.
OK Greg weighs 300 + lbs and my playing weight was at 170. We're both sprinting and he's looking towards right field and I'm sprinting towards 3rd looking back and we're on a collision course.
All I can remember is him standing over me dropping sweat on me and saying these profound words, " You aight bro?" It was not pretty but I sustained the massacre and proceded to finish pitching but I have not been hit that hard since I ran into a brick wall while playing basketball in high school. :D

[NCBBallFan]

AJ...

You should write posts like that all day and just let the rest of us just enjoy........(and write a book too!)

Fantastic post, thanks for sharing and keep it up!

:jump:

[Nostradamus]

Sorry, a little off topic but what are the jobes exercises that everyone is talking about and what are they designed to do?

[NCBBallFan]

Jobes exercises...named after Dr. Frank Jobe. Some coaches call them rotator cuff exercises, done with 3 lb dumb-bells.

Basically, the Jobe exercises are arm insurance for pitchers. They strengthen and protect the shoulder and elbow from the violent stresses inherent in throwing a baseball.

Most good pitching manuals have the full set in them. Get one. Do them.

[Applejack]

Originally posted by Nostradamus
Sorry, a little off topic but what are the jobes exercises that everyone is talking about and what are they designed to do?

Posted by Applejack"I had an intensive rehab program of long toss, light weights, more long toss, surgical tubing exercises and even more long toss."

[Braves]

Originally posted by Nostradamus
Sorry, a little off topic but what are the jobes exercises that everyone is talking about and what are they designed to do?

This is not a jobes exercise site, but it is considered one of the best
Dr. Andrews (www.asmi.org/SportsMed/throwing/thrower10.html)

[Intimidator Coach]

I think the exercises in question are meant to be used after a workout , or pitching in a game . They tend to burn lactic acid off the muscles which cause's some to have soreness usually the following day after pitching. Jobes , combined with sprints should help keep the ice off the muscles , not always but most of the time.
Us poor folks just use 2 baseballs , a tennis ball can of dirt and do exercises .
:cool:

[THEBIG"O"]

I have a question that maybe someone can give me some incite to........After pitching a game how much throwing should a kid be doing in the days that follow. I know the kid should be long tossing but at what distances or rather at what levels of intensity. Thank you to anyone who can help me out here.

[Intimidator Coach]

I think that depends on innings pitched on a given day and when the next start would be.
Pitch on Day 1
catch or rest on Day 2
Throw off the mound on Day 3 ( 60 to 75% )
rest or play catch on day 4
start another game on day 5

most high schoolers will be playing other positions so you have to work around a pitchers workout schedule .

I personally think throwing everyday is ok, if you follow a regulated plan.
More throwing helps build velocity and with velocity you get movement at the end of the pitch .
Alot of pitchers get arm problems by overthrowing to gain velocity.
you get good radar readings but the ball doesnt move and your pitch ends up in the batters wheelhouse.

[NCBBallFan]

Based on Tuesday/Friday games. Most pitchers will only go out 1 time per week. High school rules and common sense limit innings. You should not be pitching in HS and in any other league at the same time.

Day 1: Monday: Go lite on the arm... batting practice, fielding but no hard throwing.

Day 2: Game Day: Pitch. We like to ice for 20 minutes and then do about 10-15 min of Cardio-vascular exercise to get the blood flowing. Jogging around the field a couple laps is good.

Day 3: Wednesday...enough throwing to work out any residual stiffness. It's "lifting day" if they are on a weight training schedule. Cage work.

Day 4: Thursday: play catch/mini-long toss/50% bullpen. Fielding your 2nd position (normal throws)

Day 5: Friday: Usually another game (at a different position).

Day 6: Repeat Wednesday...get some hitting in on your own.

Day 7: Rest.

In General. You should play catch and get your arm moving every day if possible. Long-toss/bull-pen work every other day. Once the season starts, gage your long toss on your pitch count. If you are going a lot of innings/pitches, you shouldn't do long toss over about 120 feet....Pre-season, back it up some and get some arm strength. Bull pens are generally 50%-75% working on touch/feel. Finnish the last 5-6 pitches at about 90%.

[THEBIG"O"]

As highschool baseball guys, how do yall feel about highshool ball v. summer ball? As it has been my experience not many kids get looked at playing highschool ball, and unless they are playing under a good program, many times they come out of highschool seasons worse than when they went in. Just wandering what yall's thoughts were on this.

[rcbbfan]

Most college coaches are too busy with their own teams during the HS season to spend time looking at HS players. That's why HS players are more likely to be seen in summer leagues regardless of what type of league their playing in. Other than being more likely to be seen in the summer there isn't really any HS ball vs summer ball. Any kid that has hopes of playing at the next level needs to be playing summer ball and even fall ball some where.

[THEBIG"O"]

So then does highschool ball have any actual plus's other than adding more games to a kids schedual. As I have found it many times the instruction you are getting is less than average and I have seen it do harm to many players. If summer ball is where you are going to get looked at then is it worth the risk of injury and fatige to play that 30 games more a year? Just something for yall to think about.

[rcbbfan]

I'm one of those that would say that the more you play the better you get. So yes, I think that playing the HS schedule is worth it. As far as that goes, just try to stop 'em. I can tell you that my son is about to bust (so am I) to get started.
If nothing else think of it as a warm up to the summer season if being seen by college coaches is what's most important to you. I really don't think being seen is the motivation for playing baseball in the first place, especially in HS. I think that it's more friendly rivalrys with your summer teammates and bragging rights, not to mention the shear love of playing the game.

[THEBIG"O"]

I think that is one of the best answers I have heard yet and certainly the one I had in mind when I posted the question. Also if publicity is what you have in mind when playing ( and I am not sure that this is everywhere though I imagine it is most places) the news papers tend to follow highschool baseball very closely and can easily make a name for a kid by publishing an article.

[rcbbfan]

PUBLICITY!!!!!

Boy, thats another can of worms. Another good discussion topic.The question is; Is a lot of publicity a good thing or is the bright light of "fame" more than some kids can handle?

[THEBIG"O"]

Well I'm not sure that it's always that the kids can't handle it but more that maybe they didnt deserve it in the first place. Sometimes a kid can just be having one of those amazing years where everything seems to go his way, but the publicity he recieves can cause too many expectations to be placed on him when maybe he wasnt in fact as good as he was made up to be. Hopefully you understood that, it is kind of a heap of ideas there.

[Braves]

Hey Guys, these are great questions, but we're getting a little off topic here. Just start a new thread with those topics.

[NCBBallFan]

Applejack, I know your busy building the basketball board, but, when you get a chance, can you share some stories about some of your teammates. I know you have a zillion of them. (yep, I count without using my toes).

We need some good ones to go with our morning :coffee:

[Braves]

AJ, quit allowing your job to interfere with your priorities...stories, man. We want stories :D

[Applejack]

Originally posted by Braves
AJ, quit allowing your job to interfere with your priorities...stories, man. We want stories :D

OK...OK!! I just stumbled across this. For some reason I'm not being notified that you guys are posting here.
I'll have a story here by the end of the day.
hey Braves, can you check on that notification thing for me?

[Braves]

Originally posted by Applejack
hey Braves, can you check on that notification thing for me?

Yep..here it is, " You have been notified that you are to report to your nearest IRS office....." Whew, I thought that was being sent to me :)

[Applejack]

Originally posted by Braves


Yep..here it is, " You have been notified that you are to report to your nearest IRS office....." Whew, I thought that was being sent to me :)

There is some truth to that statement.
I gotta go see H&R Block. ;)

[statefan]

in response to how much a kid should throw, i believe it should be up to the kid. i'm a current high school pitcher now, and although i'm a young guy i think i have a great feel for my arm and know when i should throw and when i shouldnt. every pitcher's arm is not the same, for example we have a kid that will just come in and close this year, we arent goin to have him do the same work outs as the staters, its a different mentality as well as approach. pitchers should learn to get a feel for their own body and set up a throwing program accordingly, a coach can help with this process, but i dont believe a coach should mandate one.

[Applejack]

OK, here is a quick one.
When I was in the minor leagues one year we had this pitcher that had somewhat of a drinking problem. His nickname was slurpy.
His birthday was during the season so a bunch of us got together to help him celebrate.
We decided to take him to a bar and buy him all the drinks he wanted.
He said line 'em up and he will knock them down. (He liked rum and coke)
We bought 7 glasses of rum and coke and lined them up in front of him and he knocked them all down. By this time he was pretty much juiced.
We told him that the record was 10 so he would have to drink 11.
He said that he wanted to break the record.
We lined up four more but the 4th drink was straight coca-cola with no alcohol. We wanted to see his reaction.
He knocked down three and when he drank the 4th we were all gathered round to see what he would say.
After the 4th glass he slammed the glass on the counter and said " What are you guys trying to do kill me? That one was stout. Next time put some coke in there." :D
That is one of the many reasons that I do not drink. It dulls your senses.;)

[Applejack]

Question:
Where do pitchers hide foreign objects and illegal substances while pitching?

[Braves]

Between fingers of their glove hand?..Man, Gaylord Perry revealed too many secrets..made it tough to earn a livin'

Good question AJ. I really don't know

[NCBBallFan]

Since my son refuses to wash his cap during the course of a season, I figure the salt stains should be good for hiding something.

OR we might go back to the 60's when you put "dippity-do" on your hair?

How about on your shoe and load up when you are "cleaning" your spikes?

I honestly have no idea. Makin it up as I type.

[Applejack]

All of these answers are right.
I have known pitchers to put it on the nap of their neck and let the hair hang over to hide it.
Also on the inside of their belt buckle, armpit, shoes, cup, groin area, cap bill, nose ... man you would not believe most of this stuff.

[Braves]

...and all this time my wife thought they were just rearranging their cup

[neckball]

How should a parent handle a situation with a coach when he allows their son to exceed a certain pitch count, whatever that number may be? I'm sure we've all seen situations where a team may have one stud who gets rode hard and put up wet. I saw a deal in a fall tournament last year where a kid was left on the mound for 130+ pitches and his mom was about to go nuts. His coach was trying to win the game but it was obvious to most that he was tired and becoming ineffective. It was a showcase tournament and the game didn't mean anything really, no trophy, conference championship or anything like that. You think a parent can tell the coach when enough is enough and not affect the player's playing time or situation overall with the team? Thanks for your insight.

[Applejack]

Originally posted by neckball
How should a parent handle a situation with a coach when he allows their son to exceed a certain pitch count, whatever that number may be? I'm sure we've all seen situations where a team may have one stud who gets rode hard and put up wet. I saw a deal in a fall tournament last year where a kid was left on the mound for 130+ pitches and his mom was about to go nuts. His coach was trying to win the game but it was obvious to most that he was tired and becoming ineffective. It was a showcase tournament and the game didn't mean anything really, no trophy, conference championship or anything like that. You think a parent can tell the coach when enough is enough and not affect the player's playing time or situation overall with the team? Thanks for your insight.

I would suggest the first thing that a parent should do is to converse with the coach privately and civilly about your concerns.
Sometimes a coach may get caught up in the moment (I know I do) and not pay attention with the things that he should be very attentive of.
Let him know that you are on top of this and if this conversation does not change things then you should take matters into your own hands and have your kid play with someone that is concerned with the well being of the athlete over the possibility of winning a "meaningless" game.

[gonzo]

AJ, if I can take your answer further. My son has always pitched and as he has gotten older concern for his arm (and it's longevity) has always been around. Before your son throws one pitch for a new coach, as a parent you should talk to the coach about your son and his pitch count. NEVER discuss innings, only number of pitches thrown. Also remember when you have this discussion, does your son throw a higher number of pitches warming up? Does he throw over to first a little or a lot. Is his throw to first quick and hard, or slow and lazy? IMHO, the average high school pitcher who throws 100 pitches in a game has actually thrown between 150 and 180 pitches for the day. The average pitcher will throw from 25-50 warming up. 4-8 pitches warming up at each inning.

In my experience, a coach who is not receptive to discussing your son's pitch count is not a coach he should play for. Now once you are in a game situation, if you have had these discussions with the coach, you will know his stance. Then a quiet conversation at the fence to remind him about your son's pitch count may be all he needs to realize that he has lost track.

Just my humble $.02 worth.

[Applejack]

Well said G.:thumbup:

[NCBBallFan]

gonzo & aj are right on...

But the conversation must take place in advance - don't catch him by surprise in the middle of a game.... that won't accomplish anything but create hard feelings on both sides.

Layout your expectations of his responsibilities as the coach and once you reach agreement, let him coach and you just be the cheerleader for the team.

[Braves]

Bump for newbies

[Applejack]

Where they at B? :confused:

[Braves]

reading the posts.

[splity]

Applejack,

I have read that you went to Spartanburg Methodist and they are one of my top choices for colleges. I just dont really know what to do because i am a senior right now, and i am getting good looks from really good D2 schools and some semi good D1 schools. My problem is that the offers that have been put up to me are their but they want decisions soon, but i want to wait till Spartanburg comes around and see what they say. Also finacially I dont know if Spartanburg would be as good for me as the D2 schools because of the really good offers that i have gotten.

Was you faced by the same problems. What kind of fasique did you have. Some Scouts want me to go juco but scouts tell alot of players to go juco and they just go and nothing happens. I think i do have a chance to play in the majors some day and its my dream. I stand 6ft 4 and only weigh 168. I throw mid to upper 80s. My question is, did you face similar choices when you were in highschool?

[Applejack]

Yes, I was fortunate enough to have several choices when I was coming out of high school.
My advice to you is to weigh your options very carefully and figure out what will be best for you in the long run.
If I were coming out of high school today I think that i would still go to Spartanburg Methodist. It's simply a baseball factory.
I know that financially it may not look like the best option but if Coach Wallace is really interested he will find ways to help you and your family support your financial needs.
Work study, academic scholarships etc...
SMC does not have the financial backing to give many scholarships so they normally give partials and work through it.
Send me a PM and I'll contact coach Wallace to see just how interested he is and I can further advise you after our conversation.

[Braves]

That was really nice of you AJ...thanks a lot

[splity]

Applejack,
I sent you a private message on sunday let me know that you got it.

[Applejack]

Originally posted by splity
Applejack,
I sent you a private message on sunday let me know that you got it.

I got it Splity. I followed up on it but have not received a call back. I'll try again on Friday. Keep your head up.
AJ

[NCBBallFan]

:bump: for new readers

[Braves]

A great read...going to sticky this one for a few days

[Braves]

If anybody would like to ask AJ anything, I can bring him back. He is very helpful.

[Braves]

There has been a lot of views recently, but does anybody care to post a comment? If you want, I can bring AJ back

[superwright]

This was a good thread....I read every post.....a lot of good questions and answers.

[Wonder Woman]

There has been a lot of views recently, but does anybody care to post a comment? If you want, I can bring AJ back

I want. Get him back to TBR pronto!

[Braves]

I want. Get him back to TBR pronto!

Yes ma'am:bike: