Legion Baseball

[DownSouth]

I am hearin some rumblings on the legion fronts, so I have a couple questions.

Are Taylorsville or Boone having a Legion teams? If so, are they Area 4 too?

There is a new rule where teams can draw from more schools. How does that work?

[Mudcat]

I know we investigated starting a new legion team in our area last spring combining TC Roberson and West Henderson. The school districts have common boundaries and we had the area guy in to talk with us and also offered him a junior legion team which our area does not have. He was not very encouraging and the legion group in our area convinced the local school superintendent that it was "divisive" for the community. These 2 schools do no presently participate in legion baseball and never will with the current set up. Though they were very cordial I got the impression that they weren't interested in what we were proposing. Therefore, legion baseball in the western part of the state remains very weak without TC Roberson, West Henderson, and Tuscola participating. Maybe he was just trying to protect his own group since a TC and West Henderson combination would have surely dominated the western district. It's really a slap on legion baseball in our area of the state to have someone in charge that seems to be protectionist. The local legion group in our area found out immediately what we were proposing and found a way to put a stop to it. Until Legion babseball in NC decides they "really" want the best baseball players to participate it's not going to happen. Too much local politics from the district directors to current participants.

[homerun4]

what is the current set up. can t.c.roberson play for anybody in that district . if some one is already drawing from those schools then i agree with the commisioner if not then they should let you guys form a team.but you have got to realize that starting a legion team and doing it right is more than just buying a few uniforms finding a coach and just showing up to play. it takes a lot of hard work if you want it done right.

[Mudcat]

they can but they won't. The programs here in the mountains aren't the caliber of the ones in your area. I know this county where I am hired a guy to coach the team that couldn't even keep a HS coaching job. As far as doing it right, all 3 mentioned programs are playing nearly 100 games a year. I think we could handle a 5 week legion schedule.

[playme]

it is unlikely that Taylorsville will field an AL ball team....most of the kids here are looking for a place to play summer baseball outside of AL....some wanted releases last year and couldn't get them so this year they are looking to play somewhere else...

Taylorsville draws from 1 high school and they can not compete with teams that draw from 3, 4 or 5 high schools....in the past most legion teams from area 4 came to T'ville and delighted in beating(pounding) sophs, feshmen, and juniors....without fan support at the gate(visiting teams often brought more fans), it is hard to finance an AL team...

Commander Gragg says that T'ville has to be in area 4....i believe they should be in area 3...anyway with 19 yr. olds returning, T'ville can not compete with Caldwell, Hickory, Cherryville, or Shelby...they would not compete with Rowan, or Davie in area 3...so why waste the money?

if T'ville kids want to play AL baseball, they will have to be happy playing for the nearest teams because they can't get releases from teams they don't want to play with....most of them will just wait for fall ball or travel out of state to play this summer...

we are looking for a few good teams, who can use some good baseball players in the ....

[NCBBallFan]

playme

Your area isn't the only one where the players are scrambling to avoid playing legion ball. Most players around here view it as a last resort... just in case nothing else pans out.

Except in a few traditionally strong communities, legion ball is dying quickly.

[DownSouth]

I guess this area (Caldwell County and the Unifour) should consider themselves lucky because Legion thrives in this area. Its a war to get a roster spot on Post 29 and then its an honor to play.

I just do not understand the thrill of AAU and the like. Why should someone have to pay to play baseball? And thats what it amounts to. Alot of times in this area, it amounts to okay I am not good enough to make a team myself, so I'll get my daddy to coach me so I get to play or my friends dad can get a team and I can play for them.

[hitman]

DownSouth, you are dead on. Parents today do not understand role players and bench time. If a kid cannot crack the legion lineup, let's go play AAU, USSSA, etc. Former HS and college coaches are jumping on the band wagon. The money from coaching these teams is good and the season and commitment is short.

[Htownballa20]

Huntersville post 321 looks to have a lot of returners from last year very talented team. Not sure exactly who all is coming back from college to play but expect some very solid core players to return. Some haven't played in a while and will be hungary, so be on the look out. Any college returners that are known from Posts like Charlotte, Newell, and whoever else is in the Area 4 section?

[Braves]

Let me qualify my statement first...

I love AL play and the quality of players participating. Also, I do not like the " pay for play " concept...something just seems wrong with that, but having said that, let me pose a question.

Since the name of the game for talented players is exposure, where would you have him play. At a Showcase tournament that may have 25-50+ scouts attending or an American Legion game, where there will be 0 scouts...unless coming to watch a relative.

Keep this in mind. A scout attends the showcases because he can see more teams in a weekend, then he can see in a month of AL games..so financially and time management wise, you know where he's going.

For those who get selected to play on true " Showcase " team like the On Deck O's or the Diamond Devils, this is a completely different situation. That is not Daddy ball. You are being developed by professional instructors that will not only develop your skills, but place you in the best position to showcase those skills. That, my friends, is an investment worth paying for.

For those talented players who have already signed, go have fun and play Legion ball.

[SabreFan]

Will someone please or research the issue and tell me if Mint Hill will be having a legion team this year or not? I heard that they had lost their Howard sponsor and coach.

[highntight]

What are the options for an 05 grad in the Hunterville area. We are trying to find something that offers the best developement and exposure. Legion, AAU, USSA, AABC or Showcase teams. Does anybody know what most of the young men from Hopewell and North Mecklenburg are going to do this summer?

[Htownballa20]

Well Huntersville Post 321 will be pretty strong with some returners from last years squad so i guess it would be up to you on what u want to do......I do think though more people should play over the years and establish a program........So just come out and give them a look and decide from there.....

[highntight]

Who should we contact, any idea? Thanks

[NCBBallFan]

All of the seniors at NM play legion on 321. They can point you in the right direction. I believe that King will be coaching the team.

[SouthLoop]

Again, anybody know if Mint Hill will be having a legion team this year or not? Word is that Mint Hill Legion lost its sponsor, Howard, not sure if they have a coach or not plus don't know if they have a place to practice if they do get a coach!

[Htownballa20]

Yes highntight Coach King is goin to coach Huntersville's legion and if u would like any information pertaining to the team he is probably the man to contact, or like from the previous post from NCBaseball had you could probably ask some of the seniors to get you some info on it. This year should be very exciting for Post 321, give them a solid look.

[highntight]

Htownballa20: We will look into 321, thanks for the info!

[SouthLoop]

I'll answer my own question: Mint Hill Legion still has a sponsor and a new head coach. Edwards, JV coach from Butler.

[playme]

Taylorsville will field a baseball team this spring.......No you can't have Payne or Hollifield....

[Caroliner]

American Legion has traditionally been what you do in the summer, especially in certain areas. Unfortunately, politics, shrinking budgets of local posts and the strong emergence of showcase teams have severely hampered the lure that Legion once had.

Locally, Kernersville Post 36 up until a few years ago was THE only option for the best players around. Post 36, pulling from East Forsyth and Glenn, has an unbelievable history with outstanding players and coaches. Someone described AAU/Showcase ball as "Pay for Play," which is true, but unless you have a huge post, legion players/parents must raise money as well. That was the final nail which caused Post 36 to actually have to shut down its baseball program until a couple years ago and it is obviously not anywhere near where it was and will probably never be after restarting.

It is not a matter of whether you like Legion or like Showcase teams, it is a matter of what is best for the player in regards to exposure. It is not "daddy ball." Just refer to the interview given by Elon coach, Austin Alexander on the board. Coaches and scouts are going to go where the talent is most abundant and talent is going to go where coaches and scouts are most abundant. Baseball, above all sports, is very tradition-based and I agree that no AAU or Showcase tournament I've ever been to rivals the genuine baseball feel that Legion games have historically had and the atmosphere at places such as Rowan County can't be matched by most major colleges. Legion teams are a community team and showcase teams are far less personal.

With all that said, there is a transition going on and players can not be expected to play Legion because of tradition. I hope there is some way Legion ball can be saved. I realize that it still thrives in certain areas but the competition is shrinking every year and something is going to have to be done. I am not sure how Legion rules address this, but maybe legion teams can get into more tournament play rather than all league play. It's a tough situation but I've seen the best of both Legion and AAU/Showcase, and as we all know to be all too true, players must have some reason other than tradition to play with anyone.

[SabreFan]

Again this question comes us. Will Mint Hill have a Legion team this summer or not? Questions have been raised again this weekend to whether the Mint Hill Legion team has a sponsor and a coach for this summer. It has been heard that Mint Hill has again lost their sponsor and coach for the summer. Any one know anything?

[Braves]

Sorry Sabrefan, I thought this would be answered by now. If you beat me to it, I'm sure Coach Rummage of Pineville post will know. He keeps up to date info on what's happening in Charlotte Legion ball

[NCBBallFan]

Originally posted by SabreFan
Again this question comes us. Will Mint Hill have a Legion team this summer or not? Questions have been raised again this weekend to whether the Mint Hill Legion team has a sponsor and a coach for this summer. It has been heard that Mint Hill has again lost their sponsor and coach for the summer. Any one know anything?

Southloop posted the answer to this:

I'll answer my own question: Mint Hill Legion still has a sponsor and a new head coach. Edwards, JV coach from Butler.

[NCBBallFan]

Originally posted by Caroliner
With all that said, there is a transition going on and players can not be expected to play Legion because of tradition. I hope there is some way Legion ball can be saved. I realize that it still thrives in certain areas but the competition is shrinking every year and something is going to have to be done. I am not sure how Legion rules address this, but maybe legion teams can get into more tournament play rather than all league play. It's a tough situation but I've seen the best of both Legion and AAU/Showcase, and as we all know to be all too true, players must have some reason other than tradition to play with anyone.
Legion needs to adapt, and the process has started. Two changes will add to the level of competition. The first is the age change, we've all mentioned. The second is the recruiting area being enlarged.

These two changes will make legion teams more competitive, but not (necessarily) more attractive. The basic underlying structure of the legion schedule needs to change.

To be competitive, you have to build a structure that doesn't compete with showcase events but instead encourages individual competition. The coaches in Legion need to be sensitive to players going to these events and allow that without becoming defensive or punishing the player. The time when you have to get the Legion Post Commanders permission to go to a Major League Tryout needs to cease immediately. Both of these are designed to increase the coaches POWER over the player, not advance the player in any manner.

Before you play legion, have a meeting with the coach. If he will cooperate with appearances in Showcases and aid in a players exposure, he's the kind of coach you want to play for. Together, you can have a great experience and instruction. If he insists that you don't need to do anything but play for him, avoid that coach. He is not in it for the player or his future. He is in it for himself.

[SabreFan]

Yes, Southloop answered the Mint Hill Legion team question way back but it was heard his past weekend that Mint Hill's coach and sponsor was just lost this past weekend. I just wanted to know if this was true or not as there would be good players that usually play on the Mint Hill Legion team that could be used on other teams in the Charlotte area this summer.

[NCBBallFan]

Originally posted by Coach 44
I agree with your comments about showcases but, if you check the AL rule book, you will find that showcases are off limits to AL players once the playoffs start. The State Chairman said that there would be no exceptions to the rule once playoffs have started. The only showcase exempted are the State Games but they're all done when playoffs start.

They may currently be off-limits. The question is "is that right?". It's a change that should be considered. It needs to be addressed if Legion ball wants to attract the best players back into the fold.

The very nature of the 9 inning legion game does not lend itself to having multiple games played at a common site, like is present in other formats. Legion ball needs to work hard to make itself compatible to the needs of the player. Without changes, it will continue to diminish.

[SouthPawDad]

Participation runs much deeper in some communities. For example, Cherryville and Shelby's legion teams have an unwritten rule that says "if you participate in the State Games you can't play on our team". These Legion teams will not allow the kids to be nominated for the State Games. I know of two players in Gaston County who were not allowed to return to the Legion team after one went to the beach (after graduation) and the other was chosen to be a captain of his varsity football team (a rising senior) who was told that he could not attend a two day summer football camp with his high school team. He decided his job as a team captain was more important.

[homerun4]

that is the reason teams like rowan, shelby, caldwell county, cherryville are so succesful kids must realize what they want to do in the summer play baseball or go to football camps beach or play aau. legion is a summer of baseball. hey caroliner as far as kernersville they had a great legion program but no backing from there post or community. Dale ijames run every thing by himself when he started the program. then the sparrow ordeal did not help that program along either.look for this team to pick up. the program just need a little backing from that community.

[SouthPawDad]

"...legion is a summer of baseball".

I think that's part of the problem. For most teams, those that don't advance thru the state palyoffs, it's only a month of baseball. Many players are looking for opportunities to continue participating at a high level of competition and when the Legion's regular season is over, for most players, that's it. With other programs, the players may stop playing tournaments for a couple of weeks when school starts, but Labor Day weekend they are going again, 'til November. MHO.

[Caroliner]

Originally posted by homerun4
hey caroliner as far as kernersville they had a great legion program but no backing from there post or community. Dale ijames run every thing by himself when he started the program. then the sparrow ordeal did not help that program along either.look for this team to pick up. the program just need a little backing from that community.

I agree 100% with you homerun4. Ijames built the program and Starbuck and Sparrow had some unbelievable teams as recently as the mid 90's. They were finding it difficult to even secure a field to play on from year to year after Ijames and the Post had their falling out. The mess that Sparrow got into only made matters worse. Politics have put it where it's at right now. It may rebound now under Plaster but it will be really difficult to win back what little community support they had to begin with and by then I'm afraid the good players will be opting for something else which has already begun to happen now that Kernersville has their own Southern Collegiate team and several other local options right here in between Winston-Salem, Greensboro, and High Point. I hope it does rebound, I'm definitely not a Legion-basher but I do agree with NCBBallFan.. I think Legion, as a whole, may have to adjust their format to address the so many other options during the summer and more importantly the growing attitude among college coaches that showcases are the cheapest and most effective way to scout.

[NCBBallFan]

I really like the brand of ball played in legion. It's the best summer baseball around for just flat "having fun" and seeing great competition.

But it still needs to look at itself very hard. Particularly in baseball, traditions die hard, but, as in any business, you have to continue to "re-invent" yourself and adapt to a changing environment to remain competitive.

At one point in time, Legion was just a step below Single-A. Those days are long gone. I don't know if they can be recovered. I would like to see multi-team "mini-tournaments" played over weekends at a college campus. That increased exposure may help. I would also like to see the return of the old "down-town" Legion field that has disappeared from so many places and small towns as a place for everyone to come watch the "boys".

[SouthLoop]

There will be NO Mint Hill Legion team this summer as of Monday, 3/17/03.

[gonzo]

Southloop, It is not a done deal yet. I talked to Howard yesterday and he is still working to get a deal done. His biggest sticking point right now is a field to play on. Seems like the baseball politics continue right on through summer. He also proposed to the Legion powers-to-be that he be allowed to field a homeless Legion team. They nixed that idea. But he is still working on a field. Don't count him out yet.

[SouthLoop]

Gonzo:

It may be a done deal soon if Howard can't come up with a solution and decide what's going on soon. Yes, and I know that the biggest sticking point is that the Butler and Independence fields are not available for the Mint Hill Legion team but...Mint Hill's Legion players are looking to sign up elsewhere as we speak so...if Howard doesn't come up with a plan very, very, soon, his next issue will be players as most will be committed elsewhere! Not counting Howard out but...just what I heard?!?

[Mudcat]

With the increase in the age limit for legion should have also come an increase in minimum age. We have rising sophmores playing on our local legion team every year. They will provide a lot of competition for rising college sophmores:rolleyes: It should be a league for graduated seniors and 1st year college players if they want to improve the level of competition. With the expanded areas this may be accomplished. The younger kids that wish to play college baseball have to do the tournament play and showcases. There is no exposure for them in legion baseball. But I agree with our "astute" previous poster that until legion becomes a little mor flexible with some of their rules they will flounder in mediocrity.

[NCBBallFan]

Maybe Junior Legion should adopt a showcase format?????

Just an Idea.

[playme]

some areas have to play hs sophmores because they don't draw enough seniors and college kids...if you take the seniors away they don't have enough players for a junior legion team and if you take the sophmores away they don't have enough for an "A" team.. some areas have nothing for kids after little league and not all parents can afford a 3 day tourney in a distant town in a motel or the high cost of player fees...our local legion post only has 3 active members but parents want a ball team...if they have to go to next nearest town to play they often do not get favorable treatment and getting a release is as hard as stopping pop-ups on the internet.

perhaps American Legion Baseball should go to wood bats to try to generate more interest.....

[rcbbfan]

WOOD BATS !!!! Sounds like a good idea to me. That would be fun to watch and the kids would love it.

[DownSouth]

I'm not sure where the argument about allowing HS sophs to play came from. Caldwell Post 29 had 3 Sophs (rising JRs) in their starting lineup this past summer. It didn't seem to hurt them too much.

[Caroliner]

DownSouth, I think everyone is speaking in general terms. There will be exceptions to every point such as Post 29 but in order for Legion to continue to be successful or to return to where it was a few years ago, they must be successful on a widespread basis across the state not just in a few posts. If 25% of the Legion teams in NC remain strong but the other 75% turn into little more than high school level teams, it won't be long before the strongs begin to feel it. Competition has always been one of Legions' strongest traits and it takes more than a few good teams.

[The BEST]

Caldwell County draws from 3 high school ( south caldwell, hibriten, and west caldwell.) This past year they had two kids from Alexander but word has it that Alexander will be having a Legion team this year. Caldwell County has enough talented baseball players to make up more than two teams. If they keep Sophmores on the "A" team, concider it a privilage and an honor to play. Caldwel plays the best and the ones who get the job done between the lines and that is why they are so successful. Their "B" team follows right in behind the "A" doing what is expected "working to be the best." There should be no argument to who is on a legion team if they have a kids that work each and everyday to be the best, they deserve to play!