Terrible Twos

[meatpile]

In addition to the new ability to climb out of his crib, Jack discovered biting today.

He apparently bit all nine kids in the class. He really wanted to bite after the first time he was told not to. We had to pick him up, he was in the principle's office.

Dammit. What to do.

[sadic1]

Stop sending him to a baby farm just so you can drive a BMW.

[meatpile]

Originally posted by sadic1
Stop sending him to a baby farm just so you can drive a BMW.

Fuck off dickhead. Janelle is a stay at home Mom. The baby farm is not a baby farm, it's a through the week school for 3 hours 2 days a week.


That one pissed me off. I'm gonna come after you now.

[sadic1]

Originally posted by meatpile


Fuck off dickhead. Janelle is a stay at home Mom. The baby farm is not a baby farm, it's a through the week school for 3 hours 2 days a week.


That one pissed me off. I'm gonna come after you now.

"School" is what guilty parents call daycare. But 2 days a week isn't so bad. Probably enough to allow him to pick every ear infection and bad habit of every other kid in the "class", though.

[Patti]

Originally posted by meatpile
In addition to the new ability to climb out of his crib, Jack discovered biting today.

He apparently bit all nine kids in the class. He really wanted to bite after the first time he was told not to. We had to pick him up, he was in the principle's office.

Dammit. What to do.


Sounds like a chip off the old block.

[vpkozel]

Originally posted by meatpile
In addition to the new ability to climb out of his crib, Jack discovered biting today.

He apparently bit all nine kids in the class. He really wanted to bite after the first time he was told not to. We had to pick him up, he was in the principle's office.

Dammit. What to do.

Take a big shit, but don't wipe - then tell him to bite your ass. I am guessing that would solve the problem.

[meatpile]

Originally posted by sadic1


"School" is what guilty parents call daycare. But 2 days a week isn't so bad. Probably enough to allow him to pick every ear infection and bad habit of every other kid in the "class", though.

If you were in the same room as me, I'd hit you. If I see you - anywhere - at lunch, at an event, anywhere. I'm gonna hit you. It may be with my fist, or maybe a stick or bat or knife, you'll bleed. You may kick my ass afterwards - but I assure you, I;ll get at least one good shot in.

I'm not kidding.

[RSgal]

Originally posted by sadic1
Stop sending him to a baby farm just so you can drive a BMW.

Are you always a judgemental bastard, or just most of the time?

[gutter]

Sadic made meat so mad he committed a tort.

[meatpile]

Originally posted by Patti
Sounds like a chip off the old block.

Yep that was my first thought, but I was always very sociable. I bit a kid one time, and I had my mouth washed out, and that was it.

[Patti]

Originally posted by sadic1


"School" is what guilty parents call daycare. But 2 days a week isn't so bad. Probably enough to allow him to pick every ear infection and bad habit of every other kid in the "class", though.

I think 3 hours 2 days a week is ideal. I think toddlers should be around other kids their own age.

[sadic1]

Originally posted by meatpile


If you were in the same room as me, I'd hit you. If I see you - anywhere - at lunch, at an event, anywhere. I'm gonna hit you. It may be with my fist, or maybe a stick or bat or knife, you'll bleed. You may kick my ass afterwards - but I assure you, I;ll get at least one good shot in.

I'm not kidding.
Don't be such a big talking crybaby. At least your not sending the kid away for financial reasons (ie wife's full time job). There's no law against parenting full time, though. She'll have plenty of time for herself in a few years.

[HPCatFan]

I got the same lecture from Sadic about a year or so ago, maybe longer. OMG, my daughter was in full-time daycare. She's scarred for life now.:rolleyes:

[meatpile]

Originally posted by sadic1

Don't be such a big talking crybaby. At least your not sending the kid away for financial reasons (ie wife's full time job). There's no law against parenting full time, though. She'll have plenty of time for herself in a few years.

Not crying. You're a rude asshole. You need to be put in your place. What you are saying is judgemental and rude. You're judging my family.

Don't show your face around me.

[sadic1]

Originally posted by RSgal


Are you always a judgemental bastard, or just most of the time?

Hey, meat asked for a solution and I gave it to him. Where do you think he learned to bite?

[Patti]

Originally posted by meatpile


Yep that was my first thought, but I was always very sociable. I bit a kid one time, and I had my mouth washed out, and that was it.

It wasn't so much the biting as it was 'in the principle's office' at age two! That's little Meat for sure! :D

[vpkozel]

Originally posted by sadic1


Hey, meat asked for a solution and I gave it to him. Where do you think he learned to bite?

Kids bite - whether they go to daycare or not, and as usual, your solution was based on incorrect assumptions on your part.

I knda have to ask though - shouldn't the teacher have gotten the idea of what was going on after Jack bit, say the 3rd or 4th kid?

[sadic1]

Originally posted by meatpile


Not crying. You're a rude asshole. You need to be put in your place. What you are saying is judgemental and rude. You're judging my family.

Don't show your face around me.

You asked. I gave my opinion, as opposed to "judging your family".

Everybody complains about the deterioration of morals in society and the behavior of kids of the last few generations, but nobody wants to notice one of the major changes over those years as being the wide movement toward full time daycare. Can't raise a kid in 3 hours a day. I didn't realize we had so many Hillary "It Takes a Village" Clinton fans around here. I guess I'm just old fashioned.

Put me in my place, bitch.

[RSgal]

Originally posted by sadic1


Hey, meat asked for a solution and I gave it to him. Where do you think he learned to bite?

So do you suggest that good parents should never send their children to school at any age? Great idea, that way they'll never learn any bad habits from other children. They'll also learn to be anti-social and sheltered, but what does that matter, right?

[sadic1]

Originally posted by RSgal


So do you suggest that good parents should never send their children to school at any age? Great idea, that way they'll never learn any bad habits from other children. They'll also learn to be anti-social and sheltered, but what does that matter, right?

You're not even equipped to have this conversation. Call me when you have kids and/or a solid background in psychology.

[vpkozel]

Originally posted by sadic1


You're not even equipped to have this conversation. Call me when you have kids and/or a solid background in psychology.

We have lift off....

[meatpile]

Originally posted by vpkozel
I knda have to ask though - shouldn't the teacher have gotten the idea of what was going on after Jack bit, say the 3rd or 4th kid?

We don't know exactly what happened. We're gonna have a conference with the 2 teachers sometime soon. They just couldn't handle him anymore, so called to come and get him. When we go there, he was in the office, and they gave us a bunch of literature on biting. All his stuff was there with him in the office. He was in exile.

He's definitely having a tough time in there. He has 3 different playgroups, and has since he was like 8 weeks old, and nothing like this has ever happened.

[meatpile]

Originally posted by sadic1
Put me in my place, bitch.

Show up.

[RSgal]

Originally posted by sadic1


You're not even equipped to have this conversation. Call me when you have kids and/or a solid background in psychology.


Let me now repeat my question. Are you always a judgemental bastard, or just most of the time?

All hail perfect parent sadic :notworthy , better listen to him, he knows what's best for everyone.

[twin$]

What does a 2 year old look like sitting in the principal's office? Kinda hard to picture.

[jana]

Oh - for crying out loud. How old did you say he is - 2? They bite! It's a fact of life.
When my daughter was 2 she bit everything in site, by the way she didn't go to daycare. She bit her cousin one time and brought blood. My husband bit her back (biggest fight we ever had was over him biting her), and she never bit again.

[Shrapnel]

Originally posted by meatpile


I bit a kid one time, and I had my mouth washed out, and that was it.

[meatpile]

Originally posted by jana
Oh - for crying out loud. How old did you say he is - 2? They bite! It's a fact of life.
When my daughter was 2 she bit everything in site, by the way she didn't go to daycare. She bit her cousin one time and brought blood. My husband bit her back (biggest fight we ever had was over him biting her), and she never bit again.

Williamj did that. It worked for him, too.

I think things would have to reach a crisis point before i'd do that, b/c Janelle would pretty much want to kill me.

[BearBryant]

Originally posted by jana
My husband bit her back (biggest fight we ever had was over him biting her), and she never bit again.


thers your answer, meat. Bite the little fucker back

[vpkozel]

Originally posted by meatpile

I think things would have to reach a crisis point before i'd do that, b/c Janelle would pretty much want to kill me.

Kill 2 birds with one stone. Let sadic bite jack, then let janelle kick his ass.

[Boo]

Originally posted by RSgal



Let me now repeat my question. Are you always a judgemental bastard, or just most of the time?

All hail perfect parent sadic :notworthy , better listen to him, he knows what's best for everyone.

someone has to fill in for builder

[jana]

NOOOOO - don't bite him back! That's why we had the big fight - that was mean and cruel.

He'll stop biting soon enough. Those teachers at the school are supposed to know how to deal with that kind of thing.

[Boo]

I always liked McFly's parenting advice...where is that guy?

[Honeygirl]

I can't wait to breed - seriously. :)

As for the biting back thing, I did that with my nephew when he started the biting craze. It was not a hard bite - but it shocked him enough never to do it again.

I guess I should shut up. I'm not a parent - therefore I should have no opinion on the subject. :(

[LarryD]

kids will bite, but not always for the same reason.

one reason may be that they dont yet know how to convey what they want, so they get frustrated and bite.

another could be that jack is overstimulated and bites the other kids.

how are jack's communication skills? have you talked with him about feelings? read "my many colored days," or similar books with him?

two is all about getting to know yourself. you'll be amazed at the 3-year-old that emerges in a year -- personality and all.

best advice is to not overreact and tell him that people aren't for biting, but hot dogs and goldfish are.

[meatpile]

how are jack's communication skills? have you talked with him about feelings? read "my many colored days," or similar books with him?

He communicates well, but I've never discussed 'feelings'. That book is probably a good place to start.

[RSgal]

Dr. Larry in the houuuuse!!! :D

[kshead]

Originally posted by LarryD

another could be that jack is overstimulated and bites the other kids.


He ain't sneaking expresso shots when you have your back turned, is he? That sure would do it for me.

[flyfisher]

Did the teachers say, in a loud scoulding voice. "NO!" That's a start. If he understands that it hurts and is wrong, he'll stop. It's an attention getter which needs rebuff.

Biting back somehow doesn't seem the right way. But I did something similiar with my son when he was two. He liked to kick and when he nailed me in the shin I kicked him back. He cried, Nancy chewed my ass out but he never kicked again. I smiled on the inside knowing it was the right thing.

[Patti]

Originally posted by jana
Those teachers at the school are supposed to know how to deal with that kind of thing.


I totally agree! One girl I work with has had to go pick up her 4 year old numerous times for doing 'various things' that most kids do. I think it's terrible they call themselves child care and can't handle normal child behaviors.

[BearBryant]

See there, Fly has the right idea also.

[meatpile]

Originally posted by BearBryant
See there, Fly has the right idea also.

I actually discussed this with Janelle. Neither of us want to do it today, because it's the first day it's happened. But we're both thinking about it.

[BearBryant]

Jack will figure out it hurts and will stop biting. Eventually some other kid is going to bite him back.

[meatpile]

Originally posted by BearBryant
Jack will figure out it hurts and will stop biting. Eventually some other kid is going to bite him back.

Could be. He's also the oldest kid in this class.

[Piper]

I probably wouldn't think this is that big of a deal. Maybe that's another good reason I should not be a parent.

He'll likely do worse as time goes on. No big issues, its an age of experimentation. I was a terror at two so they say. Decided to attept to fly down a flight of stairs and split my chin. Got stitches, whole 9 yards. My first memory is being in the hospital after.

[Rob]

My son went through that stage too. Only person he would bite was his Mom. It lasted a few months and then he stopped. She tried everything. He would wait until she was standing in line or something. I think it was an attention grabbing thing. If she was talking to someone else he would bite her to get her undivided attention back to him. I think she tried the biting thing and it didn't work. She probably didn't bite hard enough. Funny thing is he never bit me.

[flyfisher]

As parents, we can't be afraid to act as parents. Doctor Spock or Barry T. Brasalton suggested a remedy for the child that likes to scream in public places like reataurants or grocery stores. We all have heard the terrible shreek the rugrats in the push carts make or in the high chair at the table next to ours.

When the kid hollers for no reason, lightly "smack" them with your two fingers across their lips and say "no". The kid is shocked! And they won't do it any more. Worked for us. Shit, I sound like a brut, but not really. I like to nip things in the bud.

[BearBryant]

Originally posted by flyfisher
. Shit, I sound like a brut, but not really. I like to nip things in the bud.

nope, you sound like a good father who doesn't put up with any crap from his son/daughter.

[kshead]

Originally posted by flyfisher

When the kid hollers for no reason, lightly "smack" them with your two fingers across their lips and say "no". The kid is shocked! And they won't do it any more. Worked for us. Shit, I sound like a brut, but not really. I like to nip things in the bud.

My mother could reach across 150 people in a church, restaurant, or other public place just to pinch that little piece of flesh under my arm and tell me to stop. Never missed that I remember.

[Patti]

Yep, these parents that are afraid to discipline their children aren't doing them any favors. They will grow up to be selfish little assholes.

[RSgal]

Originally posted by BearBryant


nope, you sound like a good father who doesn't put up with any crap from his son/daughter.

I absolutely agree. My parents were the same way, bratty shit doesn't fly in my family. If we misbehaved, there were definite punishments...and what do you know, it worked!

[flyfisher]

My brother was with his little buddy, I don't know how old, may be four. His friend wanted something and his mom said no, you can't have that, so the kid throws himself onto the floor and threw a tantrum. His mom pulls the toy or candy off the shelf and handed it to the kid. My brother said to my dad that HE wanted one too and dad said no. Bro threw himself on the floor and STARTED to throw the same kinda fit...dad yanks his butt off the flor and swatted his butt which really got Tim's attention. Wobbly bottom lip and tears welling in his eyes. He never threw a fit again. Parents cannot be afraid to do this in public places. Screw PC.

[Piper]

Originally posted by BearBryant


If we misbehaved, there were definite punishments...and what do you know, it worked!

Yep.

So where did this "lets talk and explain everything to our two year old" come from. My cousin's kid is a terror. She won't even raise her voice. She picks the kid up and tries to explain why what she is doing is wrong. To a two year old, this probably sounds like "bla-bla-bla-bla"

[meatpile]

Originally posted by Piper


Yep.

So where did this "lets talk and explain everything to our two year old" come from. My cousin's kid is a terror. She won't even raise her voice. She picks the kid up and tries to explain why what she is doing is wrong. To a two year old, this probably sounds like "bla-bla-bla-bla"


Jack speaks in full sentences. nuts.

But i'm still leaning toward biting him.

[meatpile]

You know, I think alot of this will be on me. About a month ago, I started really getting on his ass for whining. He stops the minute i say 'no whining'. He'll bite his lower lip and tense up to make sure he stops whining ( a funny site b/c he's 2).

But he won;t listen to his mother. He just keeps raising hell. Janelle and i have discussed this, she says the same is true with alot of her friends. All her friends also have boys.

Anyway. I know I could push my mom around more than my dad.

[sadic1]

Originally posted by Patti
I think it's terrible they call themselves child care and can't handle normal child behaviors.

Right answer! None of them can, for a number of reasons, like
a) they don't care about your kid as much as you do, b) negative behavior spreads from kid to kid as fast as a cold, c) they can't spend enough time one on one with a kid to establish a meaningful emotional bond that will promote positive behavior in the kid (assuming that you know the people who are in contact with your kid well enough to determine that they are someone you'd want them to bond with).

The funny thing about meats little tantrum and idle threat, is that he agrees with me, at least in part. Otherwise, his wife would be working full time. Why does she only unload the kid 2 days a week, meat? If daycare is so great, why not full time?

All that said, kids will bite or experiment with biting from time to time. However, when you're with the kid most of the time, you know they're not watching other kids bite and enjoy it, which is what can allow the behavior to get out of hand. Not only that (and like others here have said), but sometimes the kids are motivated by the attention it gets them. Some may even make the connection that biting gets them sent home, which they could view as a positive thing.

[gridfaniker]

When my daughter was about a year old, we put her in daycare four days a week, not because we wanted to, but because we needed two full-time incomes. (And no, sadic, I wasn't driving a BMW.) After a while, we didn't need the second income, but our daughter really enjoyed the time she spent in the daycare, so she stayed three half-days a week. Once the kids there became potty-trained, they were taken from the baby section to the preschool. I call it that, not because I feel any guilt, but because that's what it was. There was instruction in math and reading; structured play time, and exercises aimed at developing motor skills. She has always gotten along terrifically with other children and is far more polite than her dad. She was able to spell words based on sound at three and began reading the following year. She's now in the second grade and reading at a fifth-grade level. It's been suggested that she skip third grade but she's not going to. I'm not saying this to brag, just making a point that our daughter really benefitted from the time she spent in that "baby farm." And yes, I give credit for the time she spent there, combined with our own willingness to work with her (we read religiously every day and haven't stopped) and encourage her in everything she does. Our situation now is such that we haven't had to put our son in daycare. We will, however, place him in a preschool a couple days a week, just like meat's doing with his boy, when he's old enough. I can only hope to find something remotely close to what my daughter had.

Meat impresses me as someone who is completely dedicated to his child's growth and well being. To criticize him because he does something differently from you, sadic, is asinine.

[kshead]

Originally posted by gridfaniker
She has always gotten along terrifically with other children and is far more polite than her dad.

:D

[Captain Morgan]

Originally posted by gridfaniker
Meat impresses me as someone who is completely dedicated to his child's growth and well being. To criticize him because he does something differently from you, sadic, is asinine.

Agreed. I hope this is one of the occasions where sadic felt the need to stir emotion "for the good of the board" and not something the truly believes.

[Bunky]

We put our children in "morning out" simply because it provided a break for mom and child.

[Shrapnel]

Originally posted by gridfaniker
And yes, I give credit for the time she spent there, combined with our own willingness to work with her (we read religiously every day and haven't stopped)

Have you ever read her any of the "Chapter" series? I hear they are wonderful for child development.

[jana]

"Otherwise, his wife would be working full time. Why does she only unload the kid 2 days a week, meat? If daycare is so great, why not full time?"

I would imagine he goes so he can get exposure to other children his age. There's nothing worse than a kid who is around adults all the time and doesn't learn how to play and share with other children.

[Rob]

Originally posted by jana
"Otherwise, his wife would be working full time. Why does she only unload the kid 2 days a week, meat? If daycare is so great, why not full time?"

I would imagine he goes so he can get exposure to other children his age. There's nothing worse than a kid who is around adults all the time and doesn't learn how to play and share with other children.

Its about balance. Too much of anything is bad. Stay at home moms and dads should find some way for the kids to play with other kids. They will need to eventually once they start school or if home schooled once they leave home. If they don't learn social skills they might start staying up all night typing messages to people they don't know on Internet message boards.

[gridfaniker]

Originally posted by Shrapnel


Have you ever read her any of the "Chapter" series? I hear they are wonderful for child development.

"What's a hangdown?"

[Piper]

Meat's a proud pappa, and it shows.

[meatpile]

This could easily transition into a discussion of the awkwardness of having him grab my hangdown while I'm rinsing shampoo out of my hair.

Also - another awkward dad situation - Jack isn't circumsized - which means I gotta pull back his foreskin and clean it.

[LarryD]

Originally posted by meatpile
But he won;t listen to his mother. He just keeps raising hell. Janelle and i have discussed this, she says the same is true with alot of her friends. All her friends also have boys.


we're dealing with the same exact thing right now.

[LarryD]

Originally posted by Bunky
We put our children in "morning out" simply because it provided a break for mom and child.

moms definately need breaks.

[sadic1]

Originally posted by gridfaniker
Meat impresses me as someone who is completely dedicated to his child's growth and well being. To criticize him because he does something differently from you, sadic, is asinine.

I tossed a flip answer out there without intimate knowledge of the situation and based more on common norms these days than meatpile's situation. Big fucking deal. I can take the heat for that and even revised my answer slightly based on the information given by meatpile. I'm sorry if my insensitivity angered you, meatpile, and sincerely hope, based on your reaction, that your kid inherits his maturity from his mother. It is nice to get a little backtalk, though. I've been a little soft lately.


I didn't criticize meatpile or those negligent enough to stick their kids in full time daycare when they don't have to because it's not what I did. I criticized based on what I believe and have observed to be right. Everything in parenting (and most things) boils down to increments of gray more than black and white, but I'm not afraid to say that people who stick their kids in daycare full time to be raised by a bunch of other kids and a couple of helpless, overworked adults by choice are doing their kids and the rest of us a disservice in the long run. A couple of days a week is not as bad. It really doesn't mean shit if your kid learns to count 6 months earlier or knows his colors. In early ages, what's most important is that the kid develops a sense of security with it's mother that will translate later into the self confidence to not be swayed from their ability to recognize the right way to act and things to do by peer pressure and other negative societal elements. That's best achieved by as much time as possible with their primary parent.
Many of you may not believe that, but that's the way it is.

[kakia]

Originally posted by meatpile
But he won;t listen to his mother. He just keeps raising hell. Janelle and i have discussed this, she says the same is true with alot of her friends. All her friends also have boys.

i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy.i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy.

Shane and I are pretty intent about having a daughter sometime next year. I'll just cry if i end up having a son.

[meatpile]

Seriously, Sadic, I'll hit you.

[vpkozel]

Originally posted by kakia


i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy.i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy. i don't want a little boy.

Shane and I are pretty intent about having a daughter sometime next year. I'll just cry if i end up having a son.

Maja felt the same way - she really wanted a girl. In the end as loong as the baby is healthy, you'll be happy.

[Bunky]

LarryD quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by meatpile
But he won;t listen to his mother. He just keeps raising hell. Janelle and i have discussed this, she says the same is true with alot of her friends. All her friends also have boys.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



we're dealing with the same exact thing right now

-------------------------------------------------------------------------


my wife likes to drink wine a whole lot more now that we got kids. Our 5 year old is a handful. Textbook middle kid stuff. Drives his Mom crazy. He'd been out of school with a bug the past 2 days, she sent him back yesterday, couldn't hack it with him any more. Best thing we ever did was put him in pre kindergarten/smart start when he was 4.

[Patti]

Originally posted by meatpile


But he won;t listen to his mother. He just keeps raising hell. Janelle and i have discussed this, she says the same is true with alot of her friends. All her friends also have boys.

Anyway. I know I could push my mom around more than my dad.

This isn't true for just boys, little girls do it too. I know I did.

[HPCatFan]

[i]Originally posted by Bunky
my wife likes to drink wine a whole lot more now that we got kids. .

They'll do that to ya. Me, I like beer.

[gridfaniker]

meat skeered sadic

[sadic1]

Originally posted by meatpile
Seriously, Sadic, I'll hit you.

It's nice to know you "care so much" about your kid that you'd risk his financial security and the life of his father in this way. Are you going to use a "fist, a bat, or a knife" (as you said in your other post)? Someday you may have the chance. Hopefully, you'll think better of it and save yourself a lot of pain. What a fucking goober.

[kakia]

Originally posted by vpkozel
Maja felt the same way - she really wanted a girl. In the end as loong as the baby is healthy, you'll be happy.

I just don't think i could handle having a son. i've wanted a little girl for SOOOOO long.

Another thing it that whole circumcision ordeal. I'd want my son to be circumcised, but after seeing pictures of what a newborn baby has to go through....without any kind of novecaine?(sp?)...no, i just couldn't do it. Shane says that he doesn't remember, but that doesn't make me feel any better about putting my child through that amount of pain. It's already bad enough that newborns have to be painfully poked with a needle in the base of their foot just so their blood can be tested for possible genetic diseases (although i know it's the best for them in the long run).

[BearBryant]

sorry I would get the skin on my dick snipped once while i was young than have to bleed for a week a month for nearly all of my life.

[gridfaniker]

When my son got circumcized the doctor asked if I wanted to donate the foreskin. For what, I asked, and he said eyelid tansplants.

[BearBryant]

the skin makes for good finger puppets too.

[Captain Morgan]

Originally posted by kakia
Shane and I are pretty intent about having a daughter sometime next year. I'll just cry if i end up having a son.

What a horrible thing to say. I sure hope you change your tune...especially if you do have a boy.

[jana]

Kakia
No one loves a mama more that her son.

[lj4three]

meat- there are 2 types of biting: 1) monster/animal mimmicking biting 2)rage biting. if its option 1, you're ok. if its 2, you better watch out my man!

p.s. my cousin is 2 and he likes to claw my eyes and my cheeks all the time, do you think i should gouge his eyes out to teach him a lesson?

[kshead]

Originally posted by lj4three

p.s. my cousin is 2 and he likes to claw my eyes and my cheeks all the time, do you think i should gouge his eyes out to teach him a lesson?

Absolutely. He'll thank you for the lesson later in life.

[vpkozel]

Originally posted by kakia


I just don't think i could handle having a son. i've wanted a little girl for SOOOOO long.

Another thing it that whole circumcision ordeal. I'd want my son to be circumcised, but after seeing pictures of what a newborn baby has to go through....without any kind of novecaine?(sp?)...no, i just couldn't do it. Shane says that he doesn't remember, but that doesn't make me feel any better about putting my child through that amount of pain. It's already bad enough that newborns have to be painfully poked with a needle in the base of their foot just so their blood can be tested for possible genetic diseases (although i know it's the best for them in the long run).

we went through this whole thing too. Let me try to put your mind at ease. It was no problem whatsoever. Our doctor used a local anastethic (most people do nowadays). The aftercare is pretty easy - all you have to do is apply vaseline to the penis until it heals (about 2-3 weeks). The horror stories you hear about bleeding, etc. are very rare.

[lj4three]

Originally posted by kshead


Absolutely. He'll thank you for the lesson later in life.

werd. i'll teach the fucker a lesson for sure. nailcutter- whats a nailcutter?? :)

[Shrapnel]

Originally posted by vpkozel


- all you have to do is apply vaseline to the penis until it heals (about 2-3 weeks).

2-3 weeks, hell. I still do this today.

[gridfaniker]

Originally posted by lj4three
p.s. my cousin is 2 and he likes to claw my eyes and my cheeks all the time, do you think i should gouge his eyes out to teach him a lesson?

maybe you can get him to gouge out that extra patch of eyebrow between your eyes.

[lj4three]

Originally posted by gridfaniker


maybe you can get him to gouge out that extra patch of eyebrow between your eyes.

he tried. he failed. no one dares to mess with the LJ-Haira desert.

[meatpile]

So I just talked with one of his teachers for like 30 minutes on the phone.

He bit several kids and had fun with it. Wasn't seeming like rage, just thought the little fingers were too good to pass up. Broke skin twice. (holy shit). She wasn't really freaked about it, just wanted to go ahead and put an end to the day because he wasn't exactly 'slowing down'.

We'll have a conference next week.

[BearBryant]

jack jeffery dahmer mahoney

[Boo]

Originally posted by BearBryant
jack jeffery dahmer mahoney

maybe he's trying to be like Mike...Mike Tyson???

[gridfaniker]

I bet if you trade the BMW for a Windstar he'll stop.

[sadic1]

Originally posted by gridfaniker
I bet if you trade the BMW for a Windstar he'll stop.

Probably not, but he may not actually make it to "school".

I can hear this "conference" now:

Zookeeper: "Mr. Meatpile, we're very concerned with Meatpile Jr's behavior. It seems he's biting other kids."

Meatpile: "What is causing it?"

Zookeeper: "Well, after much analysis, we've determined that Meatpile Jr is a small child, and apparently, they bite sometimes."

Meatpile: "What can we do to get him to stop."

Zookeeper: "We really don't have time to deal with every little issue a small child could have here. He's just going to have to learn that the needs and safety of the many outweigh whatever little problem he thinks he's got, and to that end, we're just going to have to seperate him from the class when it happens and assume that you're a really bad parent."

Meatpile: "What if he never stops?"

Zookeeper: "Then we'll have to expel him, which includes automatic ineligibility for the varsity drooling team. I'm afraid that will go on his permanant record, and he'll have no chance whatsoever to get into the college of his choice, or even Duke. This will, in turn, reflect badly on you as a parent, and especially on your wife."

Meatpile:"I'm going to hit you. Really, I am. No, I mean it."

[LarryD]

it's a small class of kids -- just 10. ty's in the same thing. 2-day 2s, they call it. he goes from 9-12 on tuesday and thursday. this fall, he'll be in 3-day 3s.

they do all sorts of neat stuff: play on the playground, share things from home, go "camping", do art projects, go to music class, sing, play games, learn manners. it's a neat place. i went there when i was his age (same school), so did my sister and brother. my mom taught there when me and my sister went so she could be there with us.

it's not daycare. not at all.

[meatpile]

Both of Jack's teachers have masters degrees in developmental education.

One has been at it 20 years, the other 7.

[WilliamJ]

Jack should bite the teachers for being tattle tales.

[VOR]

my son had the hots for his daycare teacher at two.

[kakia]

Originally posted by Private Morgan
What a horrible thing to say. I sure hope you change your tune...especially if you do have a boy.

i know. i guess i could have a boy and still have him wear little dresses, bonnets, and put ribbons in his hair. Little girls are just so much more fun, IMO. I'm sure a lot has to do with the fact that i grew up with two sisters and i have two nieces...never been surrounded by little boys. All the little boys i ever babysat were total brats and i would have been content to lock them in their room until the parents got back.

[kakia]

Originally posted by vpkozel
we went through this whole thing too. Let me try to put your mind at ease. It was no problem whatsoever. Our doctor used a local anastethic (most people do nowadays).

Really? i read somewhere that newborns usually weren't given a local anesthetic because...gosh i forgot the reason...oh well. if a local anesthetic is given, i'd feel 10 times better about making that decision.

[LarryD]

kathy, it's over in a few minutes. no lasting damage. seriously.

also, i've got a thread to bump for you about legs...

[kakia]

Originally posted by LarryD
kathy, it's over in a few minutes. no lasting damage. seriously.

also, i've got a thread to bump for you about legs...

ha ha!! yeah, i saw that thread. ;) no comment from me. no siree!!!! :)

[VOR]

Originally posted by kakia


i know. i guess i could have a boy and still have him wear little dresses, bonnets, and put ribbons in his hair. Little girls are just so much more fun, IMO. I'm sure a lot has to do with the fact that i grew up with two sisters and i have two nieces...never been surrounded by little boys. All the little boys i ever babysat were total brats and i would have been content to lock them in their room until the parents got back.


It wouldn't matter kathy, you'd just have a total brat running around the house in little dresses and bonnets. Some things just can't be turned off.

[sadic1]

Originally posted by meatpile
Both of Jack's teachers have masters degrees in developmental education.

One has been at it 20 years, the other 7.

Doesn't matter if they're Pulitzer Prize winners. It's still daycare, not by virtue of who the caregivers are, but by virtue of the age of the kids (even Kindergarten and 1st grade are more like daycare than school in that it's all about keeping the kids orderly than it is learning, but that's another thread). I'd be more concerned with the personal disposition and patience levels of the caregivers than their educational level. There is no value in "socialization" for kids that age, and the only social habits they learn in that environment are usually negative because they do most of their "learning" from the other kids. All this bullshit about it being "school" and somehow beneficial for kids is just a commonly accepted rationalization by parents who are too embarrassed to say they'd like or need a break from their kids. Like I said, 2 days a week, there's no shame in that. It just takes a little extra work to try to get them to unlearn what they're learning from the other kids there. All little kids really need is a lot of love and patience from and the guiding presence of their parents, and a sense that they're there for them.

I'm sorry to be a ballbuster. The biting is going to stop eventually, one way or the other, just like a kid that's taking a long time to potty train won't be shitting their pants when they're 16. Tons of people have had the same problems and frustrations you're dealing with, and tons have it a whole lot worse, and most have gotten through it fine with no magic solution. That's the very reason that having a kid in daycare can sometimes complicate things and prolong a negative behavior. When the kid's at home, you have the luxury of not drawing an inordinate amount of attention to a negative behavior, which is sometimes the way to go because kids use negative behavior to get attention. When the kid's at daycare, you have to worry about how his problem is affecting everyone else, and there's automatically a lot of attention drawn to it.

[LarryD]

but...

it's not daycare.

daycare is when the kids get dropped off at 8 in the morning and dont see their parents again until 6 at night -- every day of the week. that's, in my opinion, because both (or the only) parents are working. if it's a single parent, i can understand. if it's both, then i can only assume that it's because there's a big mortgage to be paid, two car payments, and vacations that need funding. maybe both parents are career-oriented. i don't know.

i don't feel right putting my kids in daycare. that's just too many hours away from us as parents. it's tougher, but it's something that gina and i have committed to -- making it work financially.

but meat's kid is just away for a few hours a week. and i do think that there is a benefit to the kids.

[Coops Greatest Fan]

Contrary to some beliefs on this board, sending children to child care is not a negative thing at all. In today's day and age, many households require two incomes, therefore, many children end up in day care. Not to say that children who stay at home with mom have to play catch up once they get into school, but kids who go to day care (whether full time, part time, etc) tend to adjust easier because they have to deal with structure and change and also get to participate in activities such as circle time, art activities, music, etc.

Meat, this is a pretty normal thing for a 2 year old. I agree with with Larry said. He's pretty much on the mark. Although I don't advocate for biting a kid back (although I'd bite mine back if I knew they were biting!), I've found that the parents who bite them back just once (or a few other times) stop biting immediately because they have found that it hurts. At the day care center, we immediately yell "NO" and that child is immediately placed in time away (called time away because "time out" has a negative tone to it) and are told that they will not be allowed to bite their friends and because they can't be nice to their friend, they have to have time away from them. Usually they sit there until the incident reports are written.

When biting incidents occur at the center, I always have my teachers look for what was happening before the incident and what might have caused this child to want to bite. Much of the time it's because the child is frustrated because they can't express their feelings through their words. Sometimes it's because they are teething. See if Jack's teachers can keep a log of what he was doing before the incident. You may be surprised to find some kind of pattern.

Just my 2 cents.

[sadic1]

Originally posted by LarryD
but meat's kid is just away for a few hours a week. and i do think that there is a benefit to the kids.

I guess defining "daycare" is a matter of semantics, and I agree that a few hours a week isn't such a big deal. We disagree on the "benefit" thing, but that depends on what you consider a benefit for your kid. I just think that in general, parents feel the need to pretend things are benefitting their kids because they're ashamed to have and fulfill needs of their own.

[Coops Greatest Fan]

Originally posted by sadic1


I guess defining "daycare" is a matter of semantics, and I agree that a few hours a week isn't such a big deal. We disagree on the "benefit" thing, but that depends on what you consider a benefit for your kid. I just think that in general, parents feel the need to pretend things are benefitting their kids because they're ashamed to have and fulfill needs of their own.

I'm going to disagree on this whole benefit thing. I'm an early educator and take pride in what I do. I understand that parents already feel guilty because many HAVE to work (most of our parents are doctors/nurses), but they know the advantage of having their kid at such a great day care, We not only provide their kid with play time (much of their learning is done through play), but even my 1 year olds are beginning to learn academic skills.

[kshead]

Originally posted by Coops Greatest Fan

I understand that parents already feel guilty because many HAVE to work (most of our parents are doctors/nurses)

What do you mean by HAVE? As in, on call or forced work shifts? Both parents?

[Coops Greatest Fan]

Originally posted by kshead


What do you mean by HAVE? As in, on call or forced work shifts? Both parents?

Have to as in need 2 incomes coming in.

[kshead]

You don't suppose that maybe they should have thought about that before they had their kid, do you? I mean, if they wanted to alleviate that guilt, they maybe could have avoided it in the first place.

Before we get off on the wrong foot, I'm not here to bash day care. I just don't necessarily buy (!) into the concept you mentioned earlier - that two people HAVE to have two incomes to live. They don't. That's a choice.

[Coops Greatest Fan]

Originally posted by kshead
You don't suppose that maybe they should have thought about that before they had their kid, do you? I mean, if they wanted to alleviate that guilt, they maybe could have avoided it in the first place.

Before we get off on the wrong foot, I'm not here to bash day care. I just don't necessarily buy (!) into the concept you mentioned earlier - that two people HAVE to have two incomes to live. They don't. That's a choice.

So basically what you're saying is they shouldn't have had kids in the first place? Oh that sure would make things a lot easier! Yes I'm saying some people have to work and sending their kids to day care is the only thing they can do.

[sadic1]

Originally posted by Coops Greatest Fan
I'm going to disagree on this whole benefit thing. I'm an early educator and take pride in what I do. I understand that parents already feel guilty because many HAVE to work (most of our parents are doctors/nurses), but they know the advantage of having their kid at such a great day care, We not only provide their kid with play time (much of their learning is done through play), but even my 1 year olds are beginning to learn academic skills.
Like I said earlier, it depends on how you define a benefit. Personally, I think the only meaningful learning that really little kids do is through play, and they're much more comfortable playing at home. I put little stock in the "academic skills" that kids that age pick up. To me, a "benefit" at that age is emotional security, because that's the building block for all potentially positive experiences in their life to come. That's something that's instilled "the earlier and more often the better" and only by contact with a parent. You can't get that time back once they're older. Whether Johnny can count to 10 at age 1, 2, or 3 means very little to his future life, academics, or relationships.

Married Doctors who put their kids in daycare should be imprisoned.

[kshead]

Originally posted by sadic1
Married Doctors who put their kids in daycare should be imprisoned.

:lol2: Thank you.

To answer Coop.....
In the extreme case? Sure. Don't have the kid if you can't afford it or if having that kid - as you suggested earlier - causes you so much guilt because you couldn't afford it. This apparently does not cross the minds of people anymore here in the USA. The MO is to have the kid and then complain about how the child strains the household finances.

But my point is that I think your use of the word HAVE is awfully strong. I'm not simply trying to be a smart ass either. We are all adults. We all make choices. In my own case here in my house, we are planning ahead and making sure we don't HAVE to do what you say everyone HAS to do. Yes, it sucks that we can't do some of the things we would like to be doing now with some of that cash, but I figure it beats feeling the guilt you describe because we were too short-sighted to plan ahead to the point that the only CHOICE we have left ourselves is placing our child in day care and then feeling guilty about it. I figure that's about the only way I'll be making that choice. Either that or something catastrophic happening to our jobs/finances and if that happens we'd be one of those families who then HAD to do it anyway.

[Coops Greatest Fan]

I can see I'm not going to get my point across to some of you. Therefore it's even pointless for me to even post in here about the positive/negative effects/guilty feelings towards day care. I do what I do because I love it and I have pretty strong feelings on how much of an advantage kids who attend some kind of day care have.

[kshead]

Sorry you feel that way. Again, I'm not bashing day care. I have no use for it even though I'm sure it's wonderful and you are great at what you do.

But there's no way you will EVER convince me that a parent HAS to do anything that they could have avoided with some forethought and sacrifice. And that really has absolutely, positively, nothing to do with day care.

[sadic1]

Originally posted by Coops Greatest Fan
I do what I do because I love it and I have pretty strong feelings on how much of an advantage kids who attend some kind of day care have.
You mean this is not the best paying gig currently available to you?

I realize I'm a little harsh about the subject, but I DO consider daycare to be a necessary evil for some, and not completely without an up side. More importantly, for people who need to use it, I'm glad for people like you who care and are good at it. But I'm with kshead on this whole "have to" thing. Eveybody loves to spout the company line about how their kids are "the most important thing to them"...until that means moving to a smaller house or driving an older car. Daycare is for single people or married people who NEED 2 jobs to put food on the table in their run down house and gas in their '78 Monte Carlo.

[WilliamJ]

Sadic, I bet my kid is better adjusted and more emotionaly secure than your kid(s).

Let's hope your wife doesn't start fucking someone else and wreck your picture perfect family. And explain to me how one lives in a decent neighborhood on $1500 per month net.

I wish my ex coulda been a stay at home mom, but it wasn't feasible, we both drove used cars with high milage, lived in a 2 bedroom house in a decent neighborhood had all of our family out of state and there was no way we could have survived on my income alone at the time. I have a hunch that my family at the time was the 'norm' fot all the daycare kids. I'm all about pragmatism but you need to come off your self-righteous high horse. I honestly hope you and your wife keep your family intact. I'd hate to see you become a casualty of a broken family.

[lj4three]

great post william. that says a lot.

[sadic1]

Originally posted by WilliamJ
Sadic, I bet my kid is better adjusted and more emotionaly secure than your kid(s).

Let's hope your wife doesn't start fucking someone else and wreck your picture perfect family. And explain to me how one lives in a decent neighborhood on $1500 per month net.

I wish my ex coulda been a stay at home mom, but it wasn't feasible, we both drove used cars with high milage, lived in a 2 bedroom house in a decent neighborhood had all of our family out of state and there was no way we could have survived on my income alone at the time. I have a hunch that my family at the time was the 'norm' fot all the daycare kids. I'm all about pragmatism but you need to come off your self-righteous high horse. I honestly hope you and your wife keep your family intact. I'd hate to see you become a casualty of a broken family.

I'm not interested in a "my kids vs your kids death match", and I'm truly sorry that you've been hurt in the way you described. I'm not on a high horse. I respect your situation completely and stated just that. To me, you've done all the best possible under the circumstances, and that's all one can ask of themselves and others, and I'd expect that you've passed on your good values to your kid and that she's wonderful. My beef is with people who make a lot of money and send their kids to daycare so they can consume in excess, then claim that it's the best thing for the kid.

[Patti]

I think there will come a time where those children that didn't have any pre-pre school will be at a disadvantage both academically and socially.

I think the way Larry and Gina are doing it is ideal, at 2 y/o 2 days a week, at 3 y/o 3 days a week. Gradually working up to what they will have to face when they are 5 or 6 y/o.

[WilliamJ]

Originally posted by sadic1


I'm not interested in a "my kids vs your kids death match", and I'm truly sorry that you've been hurt in the way you described. I'm not on a high horse. I respect your situation completely and stated just that. To me, you've done all the best possible under the circumstances, and that's all one can ask of themselves and others, and I'd expect that you've passed on your good values to your kid and that she's wonderful. My beef is with people who make a lot of money and send their kids to daycare so they can consume in excess, then claim that it's the best thing for the kid.

I ain't digging up the thread but you told me that "all I have contributed to society is another broken family." That is pretty self-righteous, then saying that shit you did at the beginning of this thread about meat's kid was way out of line. I got no problem with you being an asshole but at least get all the information before you start judging others.

This thread was about the terrible twos and meat's kid biting during a class that is 2 hrs a day twice a week. you owe him a humble apology.

I do not disagree with your assesment of those who don't have to send their kids to daycare but do it out of greed, that is wrong and our society condones it.

[LarryD]

Originally posted by Coops Greatest Fan
I can see I'm not going to get my point across to some of you. Therefore it's even pointless for me to even post in here about the positive/negative effects/guilty feelings towards day care. I do what I do because I love it and I have pretty strong feelings on how much of an advantage kids who attend some kind of day care have.

for those kids that have to be placed in daycare, i'm just glad that there are good folks like coops taking on the responsibility of parenting.

[sadic1]

Originally posted by WilliamJ


I ain't digging up the thread but you told me that "all I have contributed to society is another broken family." That is pretty self-righteous, then saying that shit you did at the beginning of this thread about meat's kid was way out of line. I got no problem with you being an asshole but at least get all the information before you start judging others.

This thread was about the terrible twos and meat's kid biting during a class that is 2 hrs a day twice a week. you owe him a humble apology.

I do not disagree with your assesment of those who don't have to send their kids to daycare but do it out of greed, that is wrong and our society condones it.

First of all, what I said to you in that previous thread was in direct response to hostility that YOU started, so feel free to dig it up. I was just trying to hurt your feelings as you were me. Don't blame me for being better at it. I don't really feel that way.

Secondly, I NEVER said anything negative about meat's kid. I told MEAT that he wouldn't have this problem if the kid wasn't in daycare. I stand by that assertion. The kid may still take a bite if he wasn't in a "classroom", but the situation would be easier to deal with.

Third, I admitted immediately that my statement was flip and without the benefit of enough knowledge about meatpile's situation, and apologized. If meatpile can't move on, then fuck him and his little Napoleonic tantrum.

[wossa]

Originally posted by WilliamJ


you owe him a humble apology.



from sadic?

:rolleyes: ::roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

[Bunky]

here's my situation, if anyone cares

i got 3 children. 8,5, and 3. i'm 34 and don't make alot of money. my wife has "stayed at home" from the beginning.
our first child started morning out at 2, 3 days a week. he has a late birthday, so there was some concern about where to begin the school year. we put him in public school kindergarten at 5. best thing for him. he excels in 3rd grade.

mysecond child started at "morning out" at 2, 3 days a week. by 4, he needed more structure and what not. we had him tested for smart start, and that is the best thing going in early education. he changed so much that year. kindergarten this year rocks.

my third child is 3. she goes 3 days aweek, including staying for lunch. next year we hope she sttends public pre-k.

point is, every family and family situation is different. take care of the kids. they all grow up and they all turn out the way we hope they do. well, except meat. anyway.

kids are cool. kids are hard. kids are smart. kids are funny. kids are kids.

[sadic1]

Originally posted by wossa


from sadic?

:rolleyes: ::roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

It's happened before.

[kshead]

Originally posted by WilliamJ
I do not disagree with your assesment of those who don't have to send their kids to daycare but do it out of greed, that is wrong and our society condones it.

That's what I was getting at. I'll try and give an example of a guy who I know at work and what he did to raise his kids with a stay at home Mom.

Finding decent affordable neighborhoods around here is a bitch (I'm looking now), but you just look until you find somewhere you can afford and like. It may make the commute suck, but you do it. The guy I work with comes to DC from Sperryville VA. (On a side note: Sperryville is where "Cooter" from the Dukes if Hazzard has a place - but that's a story for another time.) This place is WAY out towards I-81 (this side of Luray Caverns). He lives on 7 acres against the base of the mountain that starts the Shnandoah National Forest. His backyard IS the Nat. Forest. Now, we may think he's nuts to do this. But when I asked him about it he told me he wanted to raise his kids in a small town environment (with mom at home) and his family (wife and kids) loved the outdoors. So he bought him a place out there. Dude commutes a long way (1.25 hour drive one way) and works long hours so he only has to be there 7-8 days every two weeks. But he's doing what he feels he needs to do to keep those kids home. That's his choice and - although he looks ragged sometimes - I repsect the heck out of him for it. Bunky is right though - different strokes for different folks. I just still think everyone has choices. Some of my coworkers think the guy is nuts. You should see his place though. I'll bet it ain't got Rebs view, but it ain't bad. I'd jump out there in a minute if my SO lost her job here in MD.

[Patti]

Originally posted by Bunky
here's my situation, if anyone cares

i got 3 children. 8,5, and 3. i'm 34 and don't make alot of money. my wife has "stayed at home" from the beginning.
our first child started morning out at 2, 3 days a week. he has a late birthday, so there was some concern about where to begin the school year. we put him in public school kindergarten at 5. best thing for him. he excels in 3rd grade.

mysecond child started at "morning out" at 2, 3 days a week. by 4, he needed more structure and what not. we had him tested for smart start, and that is the best thing going in early education. he changed so much that year. kindergarten this year rocks.

my third child is 3. she goes 3 days aweek, including staying for lunch. next year we hope she sttends public pre-k.

point is, every family and family situation is different. take care of the kids. they all grow up and they all turn out the way we hope they do. well, except meat. anyway.

kids are cool. kids are hard. kids are smart. kids are funny. kids are kids.

That's great Bunky, 'Mothers' morning out' is a much needed break for moms and kids. I don't think it is necessary or beneficial for one parent to be around a kid 24/7.

[McFly41]

Originally posted by Boo
I always liked McFly's parenting advice...where is that guy?

Thanks for the vote of confidence Boo! Unless it's actually sarcasm, I which case...Thanks!

I am sorting through all this, so I'll reply post haste!

[LarryD]

Originally posted by sadic1
...I told MEAT that he wouldn't have this problem if the kid wasn't in daycare...

i still take issue with a few hours a week being called daycare. jack spends less time away from his parents in a 7-day week than daycare kids do in one day.

also, in these preschool classes, size is limited to about 10. and they have two instructors.

ty is learning a lot from being in his preschool just six hours a week. i know that. it's helped him grow tremendously and to be more independent. he's more creative. he learns how to play with other kids and share. he learns about rules and our country's customs (eg: saying thank you, please, washing hands before eating snacks, helping others, giving thatnks before eating, respecting "teachers", etc.). i think it's fabulous. he just used the word "difficult" the other day and his speech (vocabulary, usage and enunciation) has grown exponentially since last september when he started.

it's an episcopalian parish day school and they do learn about god. they even gave a christmas program that was surprisingly coordinated and orderly.

daycare doesn't do that, in my opinion.

three hours away is a perfect amount of time for him to learn and grow, then share with us afterward. it helps him feel special, too, to know that he's going to school. there's a much more important reason for him being there than us getting him out of our hair for a few hours -- it's to learn.

[McFly41]

Welcome to Rant & Rave w/ in Rant & Rave...Jesus, this is a 5-in-1 thread!

On Meat Jr's Bitting problem:
Luckily we never had to deal with this much. Brody was reported to have bitten once in daycare and that was more like a fight between 2 alpha males. He bit me once and I gummed him back...never happened again.
Meat, I think you'll find that it is a phase he is going through, making him not unlike probably half the 2 yo's on the planet. Everybody has their own "right" answer...but the only right answer is what you feel compelled to do about it. He's YOUR child, not mine...not anyone elses.
Each child responds to things differently. What I did was right for Brody's personality, but might not be right for your son...I think you get the picture.
From the sounds of it, gumming him if he bites you would be my advice. Either that or one of the kids will do it and that can make it worse before it gets better?
Disclaimer: Follow my advice...it's your own damn fault!:D

On the advice from others:
Again, every child responds to different forms of disipline. The advice given in this thread offers a nice variety to solve your predicament. I'd give thought to the scenarios given and pick the one that relates the most to your sons personality.

On Sadic:
Who the HELL do you think you are & what planet do you live on?
Daycare plays a VITAL role in a childs social development. I thank the powers that be on a regular basis for allowing us to find such a structured, yet encouraging envinronment for my sons care while we are putting together our horribly modest living. But I consider us luckier than many in that area.
If not for daycare, we'd be living in a van down by the river...if lucky! We could NOT have a house or more than one vehicle if BOTH of us didn't work. If I felt guilty about my son being in daycare...he wouldn't be!
While I applaud you being in a position to not have to put your kids in daycare (in fact, I envy that), I am sickened by the way you look down your nose at those who have no other choice or chose to use the daycare/pre-school system for the ultimate benefits that it provides. Like many, your taking the glorified negative aspects presented by the media and using that to represent the norm, which it does not accurately do. However, it does make you feel superior in some horribly misguided way.
Your out of line in this instance! That's all I have to say about that...

Meat, one more thing...you better get to him first, cuz there won't be much left if I get my hands on his overly judgemental ass!!!

[Coops Greatest Fan]

Originally posted by McFly41
On Sadic:
Who the HELL do you think you are & what planet do you live on?
Daycare plays a VITAL role in a childs social development. I thank the powers that be on a regular basis for allowing us to find such a structured, yet encouraging envinronment for my sons care while we are putting together our horribly modest living. But I consider us luckier than many in that area.
If not for daycare, we'd be living in a van down by the river...if lucky! We could NOT have a house or more than one vehicle if BOTH of us didn't work. If I felt guilty about my son being in daycare...he wouldn't be!
While I applaud you being in a position to not have to put your kids in daycare (in fact, I envy that), I am sickened by the way you look down your nose at those who have no other choice or chose to use the daycare/pre-school system for the ultimate benefits that it provides. Like many, your taking the glorified negative aspects presented by the media and using that to represent the norm, which it does not accurately do. However, it does make you feel superior in some horribly misguided way.
Your out of line in this instance! That's all I have to say about that...

Meat, one more thing...you better get to him first, cuz there won't be much left if I get my hands on his overly judgemental ass!!!

Amen and I'm right behind you!!!

[sadic1]

Originally posted by McFly41
Welcome to Rant & Rave w/ in Rant & Rave...Jesus, this is a 5-in-1 thread!

On Sadic:
Who the HELL do you think you are & what planet do you live on?
Daycare plays a VITAL role in a childs social development. I thank the powers that be on a regular basis for allowing us to find such a structured, yet encouraging envinronment for my sons care while we are putting together our horribly modest living. But I consider us luckier than many in that area.
If not for daycare, we'd be living in a van down by the river...if lucky! We could NOT have a house or more than one vehicle if BOTH of us didn't work. If I felt guilty about my son being in daycare...he wouldn't be!
While I applaud you being in a position to not have to put your kids in daycare (in fact, I envy that), I am sickened by the way you look down your nose at those who have no other choice or chose to use the daycare/pre-school system for the ultimate benefits that it provides. Like many, your taking the glorified negative aspects presented by the media and using that to represent the norm, which it does not accurately do. However, it does make you feel superior in some horribly misguided way.
Your out of line in this instance! That's all I have to say about that...

Meat, one more thing...you better get to him first, cuz there won't be much left if I get my hands on his overly judgemental ass!!!

You obviously haven't read shit since my first post. I don't look down on people who HAVE TO put their kids in daycare, meatpile's not someone who has to put his kid in daycare, and I already said that 2 days a week for a couple hours is no big deal. Learn how to read, then go fuck yourself, you fucking moron.

[sadic1]

Originally posted by Coops Greatest Fan


Amen and I'm right behind you!!!
You can go fuck yourself too, bitch. You profit off of the downslide of society's values. Enjoy, and thanks from all of those Columbine families. I was being nice and holding my tongue until you said that shit.

[Coops Greatest Fan]

Originally posted by sadic1

You can go fuck yourself too, bitch. You profit off of the downslide of society's values. Enjoy, and thanks from all of those Columbine families.

Don't know what profit you're speaking of because if I chosen my job for the $$$, I don't know what I was thinking at the time.

[Coops Greatest Fan]

I was being nice and holding my tongue until you said that shit.

LOL I saw you had to go in and add that in. Holding your tongue?? I'd say you were quite talkative tonight on this whole subject. I was agreeing with McFly which is one of my American rights. You and I can agree to disagree I suppose.

[Honeygirl]

Originally posted by sadic1 You can go fuck yourself too, bitch. You profit off of the downslide of society's values. Enjoy, and thanks from all of those Columbine families.
What the absolute fuck??? Sadic - for some odd reason, I've always liked you - you're entertaining, a bit of an all round shit stirrer, but you've never got on my tits - until now. Fuck mate, that comment was out of order. Yes, this is just my opinion - and I know you'll tell me to shove something hard and sharpe up my back bottom - \/\/hatever - (as Builder would say)...but as far as I can read, Coops has just expressed her right to contribute her experiences and valuable opinon to this thread. She's the most non offensive person on this board - and didn't deserve that. Jeebus! :mad:

[sadic1]

Originally posted by Honeygirl

What the absolute fuck??? Sadic - for some odd reason, I've always liked you - you're entertaining, a bit of an all round shit stirrer, but you've never got on my tits - until now. Fuck mate, that comment was out of order. Yes, this is just my opinion - and I know you'll tell me to shove something hard and sharpe up my back bottom - \/\/hatever - (as Builder would say)...but as far as I can read, Coops has just expressed her right to contribute her experiences and valuable opinon to this thread. She's the most non offensive person on this board - and didn't deserve that. Jeebus! :mad:

She agreed that McFly should kick my ass, even though he CLEARLY did not read my posts and offered to partake after I praised the fact that she's a "caring" daycare provider, despite my general dislike of daycare! How would you like me to respond? My comment was NOT out of order. YOU are out of order.

[Coops Greatest Fan]

Originally posted by sadic1
She agreed that McFly should kick my ass

Didn't say that. Just said I'd be right behind him!

[Superfluous_Nut]

i'm wondering who all this "daycare = death of society" talk is for -- sadic or the rest of us. almost sounds like sadic's trying to validate his own choice.

for the record, i'm not a big fan of day care, but i wouldn't lump all day cares into the "baby farm" category.


my niece was running wild last week trying to bite the family dog. the dog was near the breaking point and nobody wanted to see that. she really got a big kick outta everybody trying to stop her. the biggest problem was that some of her aunts and uncles thought it was pretty funny that she was so wound up. it was a big game to her. she's very loved, but very spoiled.

she's just started speaking. her first words are "no way". she'll be two in july. i'm scared.

[Captain Morgan]

I wonder if home schooled kids turn into arrogant grown-ups who don't get along well or play well with others? Sadic, were you home schooled?

[LarryD]

personally, i like that we don't all agree on the hot-button issues.

i like that some folks are out of line.

i very much enjoy seeing a difference of opinion.

[McFly41]

>>>You obviously haven't read shit since my first post. I don't look down on people who HAVE TO put their kids in daycare, meatpile's not someone who has to put his kid in daycare, and I already said that 2 days a week for a couple hours is no big deal. Learn how to read, then go fuck yourself, you fucking moron.<<<

I have read every word of SHIT that has rolled off your tiffany cuff links you pretentious assbag. Your trying to make yourself look better by attempting to make others look bad. You have NO right to tell any of us how to raise our children (the exception of course would be a situation of abuse). Take your self-delivered Father of the Decade award and shove it up your exit!

>>>You profit off of the downslide of society's values. Enjoy, and thanks from all of those Columbine families.<<<

This barely justifies a response, but if you wish to point blame for any decline in society's values...turn the finger at yourself. People like CGF should be appluaded for their efforts in helping improve societies values while allowing parents to maintain the quality of life that is vastly over rated IMO. Your judgemental BS does more to harm those values you covet than to help them.
The Columbine incident was FAR more than daycare, I don't believe you are ignorant enough to actually mean that.

[Honeygirl]

Originally posted by sadic1 She agreed that McFly should kick my ass, even though he CLEARLY did not read my posts and offered to partake after I praised the fact that she's a "caring" daycare provider, despite my general dislike of daycare! How would you like me to respond? My comment was NOT out of order. YOU are out of order.
"My Dad's bigger than your Dad" :apfbbt:
I'm sorry - that was my initial response when I read this Sadic. I didn't read Coops' comment like that at all actually. I thought that she was just agreeing to the other aspects of McFly's post (regarding child care and his support of it). I read it like that, primarily because from her previous posts, she has never come across as someone who would join in on the physical violence threat thing that comes out in some threads from time to time.
I'm glad however, that you've praised her work - I think that she and anyone else that cares for children deserves it. :)

[WilliamJ]

Originally posted by LarryD
personally, i like that we don't all agree on the hot-button issues.

i like that some folks are out of line.

i very much enjoy seeing a difference of opinion. right on Larry.

[wossa]

i'll be right in line with all the other ass kickers sadic.

You are probably the only TBR member I hope never shows up at a function.

and Larry you are right, it is great that we have a difference of opinions on this board, but it really gets to me that you seem to go out of your way to kiss sadic's ass.

[sadic1]

Let me summarize for all of you people what's gone on in this thread. If you doubt it, look at the fucking posts for a change, rather than partaking in an emotional mob-violence reaction.

My first comment to meatpile was off the cuff, flip, and only partially relevant to meatpile's specific situation. It was not entirely incorrect and I admitted my mistake on the part I was wrong about. I further went on to say that although it's not my vision of what's best, sending a baby to "school" 2 days a week isn't such a bad thing. Meatpile reacted like a 2 year old with immediate threats of violence, which is not surprising.

I went on to debate with Larry in a mutually civilized manner the definition of "school" and the relative benefits of the 2 day a week daycare/school thing.

Coop told us that full time daycare was great for kids. kshead and I disagreed with this assertion, under certain circumstances and in a civilized way. I went on to add that for people who need to use daycare, I'm glad there are good providers out there like Coop. Coop may be a murderous child molestor for all I know, but I just said that so she didn't feel I was being nothing but critical or thought that daycare constituted child abuse.

WilliamJ told me that I was looking down on people who NEED to use full time daycare. I reiterated that I respect people who NEED to use daycare, and that everyone should take pride in doing whatever constitutes the best they can for their kids, including him.

AFTER I said that, McFly, apparently unable to read, told me that I was a snob for telling him that he was wrong to use daycare despite having limited means, even though I clearly described HIS situation as one that warranted use of daycare. He further went on to descibe the use of physical violence as an acceptable means to "correct" my thinking.

Coop agreed that violence was an acceptable means to "correct" my thinking, and volunteered to support such an effort.

I told them both to fuck themselves in a hostile manner. I feel that as soon as a conversation degenerates, uninstigated, into idle physical threats, the potential for communication is shot and a major break in what I consider to be acceptable protocol has occurred. There is NO response too hostile to address that bullshit, and the gloves are off.

At this point, others with no clue what's been going on, but smelling blood in the water, joined in the namecalling and other bullshit.

Morgan, you have no clue who I am or what I'm like outside of this forum. I say things here that I won't elsewhere. If that means I "don't play well with others", fine. If you want to take a shot at homeschooling, start a separate thread for it. I won't say to you what I'd like to right now.

SNut, despite my last comment to Coop, which was deliberately inflammatory, I do not think that "daycare=death of society". I do think that the CHOICE to use FULL TIME daycare by people who financially don't need to do so is a symptom of skewed values in society today, and not in the best interest of the kids or society's future. That doesn't mean, nor have I ever said, that all kids who go through full time daycare are going to be screwed up. There's tons of ways kids get screwed up in even the most "ideal" situation, and plenty of kids who miraculously make it through terrible situations in wonderful shape. Like I said in an earlier post, none of this stuff is black and white. As a parent, it's a matter of trying to increase the odds of ending up with a kid who is equipped to make good choices in their adult life. MY and MY WIFE'S satisfaction with our particular situation is all the "justification" I need, just as anyone else's satisfaction with whatever they do with their kids should be all the "justification" they need. That doesn't mean I can't debate the issues.

[Stargazer]

Thanks for the synopsis, Sadic! I've been putting off reading this thread, but you've gotten four pages down to one post...what a time saver! :)

[PantherPaul]

Sadic, Just curious what is your medical background in so far as you can pass out opinions that are any better than anyone else? My wife HAS a 4 year degree in child psychology and feels that a 2 day a week program for kids is VERY healthy for interaction skills with others. Brings in the home school issues which I am sure all of us have opinions. Meat I am all for the very loud NO! when your son goes into the biting thing. Returning the bite doesn't seem appropriate but then again I am not the biggest proponent of spanking either. But then I have a daughter and the only ting she ever ate was the occassional bug :D

[gridfaniker]

I remember when Kaenash used to take jabs at home schooling, which really pushed sadic's buttons. sadic would react much the same way meat did, complete with threats of violence.

[sadic1]

Originally posted by PantherPaul
Sadic, Just curious what is your medical background in so far as you can pass out opinions that are any better than anyone else? My wife HAS a 4 year degree in child psychology and feels that a 2 day a week program for kids is VERY healthy for interaction skills with others. Brings in the home school issues which I am sure all of us have opinions. Meat I am all for the very loud NO! when your son goes into the biting thing. Returning the bite doesn't seem appropriate but then again I am not the biggest proponent of spanking either. But then I have a daughter and the only ting she ever ate was the occassional bug :D
When did I say my opinion is any better than anybody else's? All I said that you may have misconstrued as such a statement was that I don't feel people who aren't parents or don't have a background in child psych have a lot of value to offer to the previous conversation. I mean they can have an opinion, but it's basis would be what? Do you disagree?
I respect your wife's opinion on 2 day a week programs, just like I've found equally qualified child psychologists who believe just the opposite. I don't recommend that people base their parenting on what child psychologists think, either. How long has your wife been practicing?
I respect everyone's opinion on this matter and most, as long as it's expressed in a civilized manner, and have reflected that view in the content of my posts. EVERYBODY thinks their opinion is better than the next guy's. That's how it got to become THEIR OPINION.

[BearBryant]

sadic is making some you look really stoopid.

[flyfisher]

Shut-up sadic.

Meat, whatcha gonna do about Jack biting the other kids?

[sadic1]

Originally posted by gridfaniker
I remember when Kaenash used to take jabs at home schooling, which really pushed sadic's buttons. sadic would react much the same way meat did, complete with threats of violence.

I never threatened Kaenash. I asked him if he wanted to fight. Never did I tell him I was going to come after him and try to get him, or that if I ever saw him I would kick his ass. He said that homeschooling parents were pussies, and I invited him to try to prove his hypothesis. I was much more civilized than any of these assholes.

[Boo]

it's going to take me a while to chew this thread.

[kshead]

Wow. I know I'm not the one really taking the shit in this thread - that's for Sadic :D - but I'll step up anyway.

I really don't give a frog's fat ass what people do with their kids. I'm not judging a damn soul on what they do with their kids. I stopped that shit after the last kid thread. As for daycare and my family? I'm not going to do it and I have my own reasons. If you want to know them - ask and I'll tell you. Simple as that. It does not and will not involve a judgement call on what the rest of you are doing. Again, I'll leave the arguing about the pros and cons of daycare to the rest of y'all.

What I am disagreeing with - vehemently - is that people HAVE to do ANYTHING in their life. Maybe someone can explain this to me differently so I can understand, but here's the way I see it... …..I am 35 years old. As best I have life figured out to this point the only thing(s) I HAVE to do are: Eat, use the bathroom, pay taxes, sleep (I've tried to get around this to no avail), and die. That's it. Sex is even optional. The only other thing I can think of is "whatever the future Mrs. Khead says I should do". But I'm a wuss when it comes to her. :D

Now - to repeat - I don't give a frog's fat ass what CHOICE any single soul on this board wants to make with their life, but PLEASE SPARE ME ANY BULLSHIT ABOUT HOW YOU HAVE TO DO ANYTHING. You don't. Period. End of story. It's a lifestyle choice.

You want to know where this comes from for me? My own home life. My old man has lived in the same little crappy house for almost 50 years. He did not buy a new car until he was 55 years old. He worked the same job for 47 years. He waited for all the good things he has now. That's a lesson I never understood until I reached my late 20's, but it sure as hell makes sense now. He can tell you that it sure sucked when he couldn't afford to go out and buy a new car or Fuji film at 9 cents a share back in the 70's, but it sure was great when his three kids finished college - mostly at his expense. If he can do it - anyone can. You can afford a whole lot of things that YOU want if YOU have the patience and planning to get them. I'm not trying to drag another soul into this, but some of y'all might want to go back and read some of the things Farmer has talked about from time to time. I get the feeling he's rather frugal but still happy and enjoys his life - aside from wanting to kill his dumbass coworkers, but we all want to do that I think.

So THAT is where I was heading. It has nothing to do with daycare, really, unless you are sitting around saying that you HAVE to put the kids there. (see those Doctors Coop mentioned) because you HAVE to work that second job. It has to do with a consumer society that has apparently has put a snow job over on a large portion of people and convinced them they have to have "stuff". You don't. Sorry to point that out. :rolleyes:

[BearBryant]

Bottom line is, beat the shit out of your kids when they act up. Your kid will learn a lesson (sometimes it takes a few more lessons) and beating your kid is a great stress reliever. :)

[kshead]

Originally posted by Private Morgan
I wonder if home schooled kids turn into arrogant grown-ups who don't get along well or play well with others? Sadic, were you home schooled?

Also if anyone was curious, it was public school that did it to me - although I still play pretty well with others most of the time. ;)

[Shrapnel]

If the daycare was open 7 days a week, I'd send the little bastards there every day. Keep them outta my hair, I tell ya! Always getting into my candy, crying and screaming. They obviously take after their mother.

[BearBryant]

screw that, my kids are going to be a sew a sweatshirt with their eyes closed by the time they are 3.

[gridfaniker]

Originally posted by kshead
What I am disagreeing with - vehemently - is that people HAVE to do ANYTHING in their life. Maybe someone can explain this to me differently so I can understand, but here's the way I see it... …..I am 35 years old. As best I have life figured out to this point the only thing(s) I HAVE to do are: Eat, use the bathroom, pay taxes, sleep (I've tried to get around this to no avail), and die. That's it. Sex is even optional. The only other thing I can think of is "whatever the future Mrs. Khead says I should do". But I'm a wuss when it comes to her.

Thing is, it's not the people who feel they have to send their kids to daycare who are taking shit. sadic has already acknowledged it's OK for people who feel they need daycare (single moms, i.e.). It's people who choose to do it, even though they could afford to keep their kids home 24/7, who are accused of being selfish. Is it so hard to conceive that some parents do it strictly for the benefit of their children and not as a means to earn more, more, more so they can live in a nice development and drive a foreign sports car? Apparently for some it is.

[kshead]

Originally posted by gridfaniker
Is it so hard to conceive that some parents do it strictly for the benefit of their children and not as a means to earn more, more, more so they can live in a nice development and drive a foreign sports car?

Not at all. But go back and read what I asked Coop and what I just posted this morning. You'll see that I have NO beef with a parent who feels they are doing it for the child's benefit. That is where I disagree with Sadic - sorry if anyone was not clear about that. I have NO clue about whether or not my child will receive an overall benefit from Day care so I certainly do not know if others' will.

I asked Coop what she meant about those doctors because I wanted to be absolutely sure she was referring to a situation where the family is making a conscious choice about their financial situation. I got the impression that those doctors she was talking about feel they HAVE to use day care because they HAVE to pay the bills. Apparently, it never occurred to them that they could simply "create less bills".

So there's a condition....
IF you are doing it for the benefit of the child? Great. Bless you. Knock yourself out.

If you are doing it because you simply want another income, and then I have to listen to you say you are doing it because you HAVE TO? Then yeah I'm going to have a problem with that. 'Cause that's bullshit.

[gridfaniker]

Originally posted by kshead


Not at all. But go back and read what I asked Coop and what I just posted this morning. You'll see that I have NO beef with a parent who feels they are doing it for the child's benefit. That is where I disagree with Sadic - sorry if anyone was not clear about that. I have NO clue about whether or not my child will receive an overall benefit from Day care so I certainly do not know if others' will.

I asked Coop what she meant about those doctors because I wanted to be absolutely sure she was referring to a situation where the family is making a conscious choice about their financial situation. I got the impression that those doctors she was talking about feel they HAVE to use day care because they HAVE to pay the bills. Apparently, it never occurred to them that they could simply "create less bills".

So there's a condition....
IF you are doing it for the benefit of the child? Great. Bless you. Knock yourself out.

If you are doing it because you simply want another income, and then I have to listen to you say you are doing it because you HAVE TO? Then yeah I'm going to have a problem with that. 'Cause that's bullshit.

Sorry KS, but everything's not so cut and dry. Some people feel they have to use day care because they need some second income (full or part time) in order to meet certain financial goals which, again, may be for the benefit of the child (i.e. tuition to a good private school if the public school sucks, a good college later on). If you're talking about a couple that feels they "have" to use daycare so they can have a summer house in the Hamptons; five or six cars in their garage and exotic vacations three times a year, then yeah, I agree. But everything isn't as black and white as you portray it to be.

[wossa]

Originally posted by gridfaniker


Sorry KS, but everything's not so cut and dry.

Grid its always cut and dry for the people that don't have kids yet.

[SilverSurfer]

Originally posted by wossa


Grid its always cut and dry for the people that don't have kids yet.

And the ones who never will.

[kshead]

Originally posted by gridfaniker


Sorry KS, but everything's not so cut and dry. But everything isn't as black and white as you portray it to be.

Careful Grid. You are starting to tread awfully far towards those hippy liberals with those lines. Those are lines I NEVER would've expected from you. You read the part about personal responsibility and choice when you got you manual of conservatism, didn't you?

For some people, it is cut and dry. It is black and white. You make a choice and you live with it. If you want, it would take a while, but I can use my own life as an example. I've already used a friend's, my Dad's, etc. How many of examples of planning ahead and making sacrifices in one's life to achieve one's goals would you like? All I am saying is that making those choices are cut and dry. I've made a shitload of them in my own life already. It's really not that hard. You say you want to plan ahead for that kid? Why get another job? Yes, that is one - ONE -alternative. Another is to downsize your life. That is my main point here. I've repeated on this boards many time opn many subjects. Over and over. As I have said, apparently this option is not one that people (other than me apparently) considers. I'm sure there are going to be those that say they have NO option, but I'm going to be hard pressed to buy that shit too. I'll admit it's not easy - for example, my Dad's life was not easy - but we all have choices.

I agree with you on the Hampton's stuff by the way.

[kshead]

Originally posted by wossa


Grid its always cut and dry for the people that don't have kids yet.

Bullshit. You think I don't make tough decisions? Why in the fuck do you think I'm working for the government? For the pay? Get real. I'm planning ahead in my life. My simple suggestion - see my response to Grid - is for other people to do the same instead of bitch, bitch, bitch about how they HAVE to do things they could have avoided through planning ahead. It's getting off the day care subject , but we are already gone from there with my posts anyway.

This, of course, does not involve catastrophic happenings in one's life. I have plenty of sympathy for that - just not what I have described over and over in this thread and others.

[wossa]

Originally posted by kshead


Bullshit.



Until you have children - how you will actually raise them and what you will or won't do is a totally hypothetical situation.

PERIOD

[kshead]

Originally posted by wossa


Until you have children - how you will actually raise them and what you will or won't do is a totally hypothetical situation.

PERIOD

So you didn't plan ahead when you decided to have kids? If not, you're a moron. Period.

[wossa]

Originally posted by kshead


So you didn't plan ahead when you decided to have kids? If not, you're a moron. Period.

how old are you? 18? Do you really think every plan you make is the way the things actually happen?

you can plan all you want. We planned - and my wife quit her job to stay home with the kids - and we created less bills so we could afford to do so - but I repeat :

Until you have children - how you will actually raise them and what you will or won't do is a totally hypothetical situation.

When things happen to disrupt your plans - you have to make changes.

thus my comment that it is always cut and dry to the people that don't actually have kids yet.

[kshead]

Originally posted by wossa


how old are you? 18? Do you really think every plan you make is the way the things actually happen?

you can plan all you want. We planned - and my wife quit her job to stay home with the kids - and we created less bills so we could afford to do so - but I repeat :

Until you have children - how you will actually raise them and what you will or won't do is a totally hypothetical situation.

When things happen to disrupt your plans - you have to make changes.

thus my comment that it is always cut and dry to the people that don't actually have kids yet.

Wossa, have you actually read what I have said instead of appearing to assume that I am Sadic?

If so, you'd know I have already said I have no problem with people who have things that come up out of nowhere and hurt their finances. If so, you'd know I am 35.

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT HOW ONE RAISES ONE'S CHILDREN. I AM TALKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT APPARENTLY PEOPLE (PARENTS) DO NOT REALIZE THAT THEY CAN HELP THEMSELVES IN LIFE BY CUTTING THEIR EXPENSES IINSTEAD OF GETTING ANOTHER JOB AND THEN BITCHING THAT THEY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING WITH THEIR KIDS THEY REALLY DON'T WANT TO DO!!! YOU KNOW _ LIKE FEELING GUILTY FOR SENDING THEM TO DAY CARE!

What is so fucking hard to understand about that? I'm tired of whiny parents who don't take ANY steps to plan ahead and then complain. That's all. Shoot. It goes for everyone, not just parents. Sheesh.

[gridfaniker]

Originally posted by kshead
Careful Grid. You are starting to tread awfully far towards those hippy liberals with those lines. Those are lines I NEVER would've expected from you. You read the part about personal responsibility and choice when you got you manual of conservatism, didn't you?

I fail to see how anything I said has anything to do with politics. More like common sense.

[wossa]

KS apparently you have ignored everything I wrote as well.

I have no problem with you having your own opinion, but it is very naive to think you already have this whole daycare, child raising, family income thing figured out when you haven't actually had to do any of it yet.

You used the example of your father and a friend to support your case. Great, i bet there are millions of other examples out there you can lean on.

But come back when you have kids and can relate how to actually did it, not how you PLAN to do it, before you start preaching.

[kshead]

Originally posted by gridfaniker


I fail to see how anything I said has anything to do with politics. More like common sense.

That's what I've been offering Grid. Y'know - if you spend less, you have more. A novel concept for the year 2003 I know, but it still works for most of us. I was just surprised to hear you start saying things aren't that cut and dry.

[gridfaniker]

Originally posted by kshead
I was just surprised to hear you start saying things aren't that cut and dry.

Amd why's that, because I preferred George Bush over Al Gore?

[kshead]

Originally posted by wossa
KS apparently you have ignored everything I wrote as well.

I have no problem with you having your own opinion, but it is very naive to think you already have this whole daycare, child raising, family income thing figured out when you haven't actually had to do any of it yet.

You used the example of your father and a friend to support your case. Great, i bet there are millions of other examples out there you can lean on.

But come back when you have kids and can relate how to actually did it, not how you PLAN to do it, before you start preaching.

I think we did cross signals a little. I don't remember telling anyone what do do with their kid or that I had it all figured out. I do remember offering a simple solution to money problems. Plan ahead and spend less. But I can promise you won't ever hear me drop a line (after I do have kids) about HAVING to do something in my life when it is something that I can SPECIFICALLY CONTROL. Ever. I'll just eat the shit you and others probably want me to eat when the time comes and deal with it. If it's because of something I have done, it will be my fault and my fault alone. But I'd like to think I've planned ahead. It's why I chose the school I went to, it's why I chose the career I chose, and it's why I chose the job I have now. I understand those good intentions may go awry, but I've been planning for years on this. I don't see why I should take shit for touting my choices and/or sacrifices simply because I point out that no one in this country seems to want to do the same. I may be an arrogant ass about it, but it IS a possible solution - one that a person can do themselves - and it frustrates me that people want to ignore it and say that I have no clue simply because I don't have kids yet.

[PantherPaul]

I have tried to keep up with this but it is hard. Whomever said until you have kids it is hard to put yourself in their position and make judgement calls on how you raise them etc. The fun comes in when a man and a woman that were raised differently have a child together. One is a spanker and the other is a proponent of "time out" Too bad a manual doesn't come out with the child.:)

[McFly41]

Sadic, I am offering you a soft appology. My comments last night were a little over the top.
However, it doesn't change my opinion that your comments were horribly out of line and in retrospect mine were as well. Trim the fat from the things I posted and you'll get my position on the topics discussed.
I am more than willing to step up and admit accountability when I am wrong...I challenge you to do the same.

[sadic1]

Originally posted by McFly41
Sadic, I am offering you a soft appology. My comments last night were a little over the top.
However, it doesn't change my opinion that your comments were horribly out of line and in retrospect mine were as well. Trim the fat from the things I posted and you'll get my position on the topics discussed.
I am more than willing to step up and admit accountability when I am wrong...I challenge you to do the same.

First, I accept and appreciate your apology, and would be more than happy to resume civil communications. I owe you an apology for reacting to your hostility with my hostility, simply because I didn't even direct a comment toward you until you made extremely hostile and inflammatory remarks specifically to and/or about me. If you disagree, let me know. The one and only apology I owed anyone in this thread prior to that was to meatpile. That apology was based solely on the fact that I assumed too much about his particular situation, and was not an apology for opinion on the topic in general. It was also NOT an apology for talking shit about his kid, which is not an activity I engaged in. That apology was over and done with before you ever entered the thread.

I'd really like you to acknowledge that I was NOT guilty of what YOU accused me of or prove that I was, which was looking down on people who NEED to have 2 jobs and use daycare for that reason. If you'll look, I specifically addressed that to WilliamJ, who was also mistakenly under that assumption. I CLEARLY stated that I have every respect for people who are scraping by who use daycare, and that the ONLY people I have a beef with are those who use full time daycare when their finances don't truly dictate that they must.

I don't mind people disagreeing or debating a topic with me, and I don't mind being called out for crossing the line unprovoked, which I often do. I'd just like to be called out for what I write, and not what you mistakenly assume I wrote or meant, and not for your perception of who I am or how I feel. If there's anything in what I wrote that you based your accusations on that you'd like to specifically point out and have me try to explain, I'll do that. I don't want to rehash all of my feelings regarding daycare, but I'd prefer to be asked than told what they are. I can guarantee only honesty.

[BearBryant]

Originally posted by kshead


So you didn't plan ahead when you decided to have kids? If not, you're a moron. Period.



damn k, I've never disagreed about anything you have ever said until now. Sometimes shit happens, or rubbers break! :D

[y2b]

Wow, I've been missing out on this thread. Good thread, HOF material. I'm on page 2, but I'll come back later...

That said, my 15 month old is napping and Mommy is at work and I need to get some stuff done, like laundry, dishes, garage, yard stuff (it's Spring here) etc. She has just learned to walk completely, and she enjoys it, climbing too....

But we are trying to pick a day care out now. I'm leaning more towards the ones that say Learning Center or Achievement Place type of thing. We're talking about when the biting and stuff might start too.... And how we'll handle it.

She's a good girl, very sweet, and I hate the idea of day care, but it'll only be 3 days a week. I'm full-time, but no insurance. Mommy can get it with just 32 hours a week, and that?s 3 weekdays and a Saturday. We want another one, and with her insurance, our first cost just 10 bucks! So that's the plan.


My wife and I have had arguments about day care. She thinks it's good for them. I think it can be, but staying at home or with family is ideal. I really got mad when she said she was withdrawn. "Withdrawn" I said? "She's 15 months old!" I warned her not to use words like that and she was way out of line. I believe there's plenty of time for all day school when they're older. She's just a baby, and while playing with other kids is great for them, it's not necessary to do it in day care. There are parks and friends who also have kids. The mall has a huge play area, and that can be done in moderation and under parental supervision.

Like I said though, to be continued. Good thread.

[y2b]

Originally posted by kshead


So you didn't plan ahead when you decided to have kids? If not, you're a moron. Period.

Actually, we didn't plan ours. After 3 years of marriage, she was half packed, I had found an apartment, we were selling the house and splitting up. She got pregnant on our anniversary, and we've never been happier. That little girl changed our lives, and to say we stayed together because of her, you'd be right. It's had it's tough moments, and still argue, but our marriage is strong now, and our whole family is closer, hers and mine.

So we didn't plan for this. She was a gift to us, and we're thankful.

[Superfluous_Nut]

here's my scorecard so far... anybody else keeping track of things?

meat - 7 points for threatening sadic
sadic - 5 points for lengthy responses that attempt to address each post plus 3 more for getting meat to threaten him
kshead - 5 points for busting out the large text
kaenash - 10 points for not being here
grid - 3 points for trying to lighten up the hostilities, but he has to share them with shrap
gutter - 3 points for the use of the word "tort"

[LarryD]

what a classic opening page!

[QueenCityHillbilly]

good call, Larry.

[PhotoGuy]

What's after the terrible twos? The horrible threes?

Last Saturday, I took My 3 year-old son Michael to the movie theatre to see Finding Nemo. He was all excited about it. I told him that there was a shark in the movie and to not be scared. We sat in the 4th row right up front and the theatre was packed. I got him a booster seat so he could see better. The was a shark in the beginning and Michael turned and said "Look daddy, there's a shark and I'm not scared!" He was really into the movie for an hour or so, until the guy sitting next to him got a huge bucket of popcorn. Michael screamed "I WANT POPCORN!!" He made the entire theatre aware of his desperate need of popcorn over and over, as if his life depended on it. I quickly escorted him out and to the consession stand. I promised him if he was a good boy and watched the rest of the movie, I would get him some popcorn. He agreed.

Once at the consession stand, I realized that I had no cash, and I was told that I could not pay with my check card. The cashier directed me to a gas station down the street where I could find an ATM. I was not about to leave with Michael to drive down the street to get money to pay for popcorn. Michael was hanging on my leg and begging me for popcorn at this point. He could see it. He could hear it. He could smell it, but he could not have it. That must be absolute torture for a three year-old. I sat michael down and told him that I would take him out for icecream afterwards if he is a good boy and watches the rest of the movie. He started to calm down and said "ok daddy, I'll be a good boy and watch the movie now."

We returned to our seats, this time Michael sat on the aisle seat. He was fine for a while, but started to squirm. Up on his knees, down again, up on his knees... the seat folds up and his legs slip through. He is stuck... oh the horror!! I eventually free him from what must have seemed like certain death to Michael and he loses a shoe. I can't find the shoe and I take his other one off so he stops complaining about the missing one and sit him down again. There is quiet murmering and whispering going on around us now, and I put him on my lap and recline back so he can see the movie. That didn't work and Michael decided that he would rather run up and down the aisle. I catch hold of his arm as he is about to bolt and he almost takes me with him. I then decided it was time to leave.

I did go to the ATM down the street, I did go to McDonald's like I promised Michael, but he did not get icecream. He did not get anything. I got a chocolate shake and told him how good it was. He cried and protested the injustice that was done to him. I told him to be quiet and think about why he wasn't getting icecream and what he had done. 5 minutes go by - silence - all of a sudden Michael says "I thought about it daddy", I asked him what he thought about and he told me that he was a bad boy at the movie and he did not do what he was told. He did not follow the rules (sit in your seat and no talking - the same rule at bed time), and that is why he did not get icecream.


We returned home and Mrs P, her sister and her mom were there talking. I continued on down the hall as michael entered the front room with his head down. Mrs P asked him if he liked the movie. He sniffled and quietly said "yes". The three of them all together said "uh-oh, what did you do at the movie, Michael?" He told them all about it. I had to be in the next room so he didn't hear me laughing at him. It was kinda cute and funny, but I didn't want Michael to know that. The next morning he promised me that it would never happen again and he wants to go see the movie again. I told him we would some day, just not any day soon. :p

[LarryD]

it's hard not to laugh sometimes when they are being crappy.

[VOR]

yeah the VOD would get really nasty when it was about nap time, invariably he would fall and he'd get po'd and throw a toy and start crying, his mother would say "somebody's getting cranky" an the he would scream "I am not!" the we would laugh and he'd get that much more pissed off. He's still that way.

[gridfaniker]

still a classic. why it's not in the Hall of Fuckering Fame is beyond me.

[magnus]

what y'all think? HoF?

[kshead]

Man, I'm an asshole. :woot:

[sadic1]

My 3 year old nephew (sister in law's kid) is a biter now, plus he shits his pants when he's mad at her. I wouldn't take pleasure in this, except my sister in law was one of those people who had no kids and liked to tell my wife what she should be doing with ours. She's read every friggin book and is in the process of learning that the kids don't appear to have read the same ones. :woohoo:

[meatpile]

I sold the BMW.

3

[sadic1]

I sold the BMW.

3

You're a good man, meatpile.

[gridfaniker]

I sold the BMW.

3


did you put the fre-fab cedar playground with bright colored plastic slides, swings and awning in the yard yet?

[ECILAM]

??Que??

Shit. Now I have to read 10 fuckering pages.

*disgruntled Yosimite Sam mumbling/cursing under breath*

[Shrapnel]

If you were in the same room as me, I'd hit you. If I see you - anywhere - at lunch, at an event, anywhere. I'm gonna hit you. It may be with my fist, or maybe a stick or bat or knife, you'll bleed. You may kick my ass afterwards - but I assure you, I;ll get at least one good shot in.

I'm not kidding.
This may have been my favorite post

[sadic1]

This may have been my favorite post

That was a total classic.

[Shrapnel]

Seriously, Sadic, I'll hit you.
:bananalam

[articulatekitten]

Absolutely HOF :D

[Fred]

I wanna watch Meat and Sadistic fuck it out.

My money's on Meat to cum out on top. Sadistic enjoys a finger up his ass too much to put up a good fight.:twocents:

[Science]

Seriously, Sadic, I'll hit you.
Did it ever happen?

[meatpile]

Last week Janelle heard a scream from the playroom - max had charles pinned to the ground and was biting the shit out of his face.

FWIMFW - Charles prolly had it comin'.

[gridfaniker]

Last week Janelle heard a scream from the playroom - max had charles pinned to the ground and was biting the shit out of his face.

FWIMFW - Charles prolly had it comin'.


didn't you just buy a new Renault?

coincidence?

[LarryD]

damn k, I've never disagreed about anything you have ever said until now. Sometimes shit happens, or rubbers break! :D

uh oh -- little bear cubs runnign around...

[solarte1969]

Did it ever happen?
you don't see sadic on here much these days, do you?

[gridfaniker]

uh oh -- little bear cubs runnign around...

just one

[HollyB]

http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2006/10/bindi_175x125.jpg
:ylsuper:

[kshead]

I'm an asshole. :bananasanta: Not one like Sadic, mind you, but still an asshole.

[Village Idiot]

Last week Janelle heard a scream from the playroom - max had charles pinned to the ground and was biting the shit out of his face.

FWIMFW - Charles prolly had it comin'.my kids did that too. :yamyam:

[Guest]

Last week Janelle heard a scream from the playroom - max had charles pinned to the ground and was biting the shit out of his face.

FWIMFW - Charles prolly had it comin'.

I know I'm prolly not the best advice giver, but when my boys started biting, I bit them back. It last about a month and they got tired of getting bit by me.

[gridfaniker]

I know I'm prolly not the best advice giver, but when my boys started biting, I bit them back. It last about a month and they got tired of getting bit by me.


were your rabies shots up to date?

[magnus]

http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2006/10/bindi_175x125.jpg
:ylsuper:

oll

[meatpile]

And now this thread shall die.

[magnus]

And now this thread shall die.

you want it back over? YOu can still bump it later, you know.

[LarryD]

:smiley-linie-020:

[gridfaniker]

bump for lushboobs

[Powerbait]

Sadic = canes?

[meatpile]

Riddel kinda went whacko up in here. Did he start drinking again?