View Full Version : It's official - ACC to expand
markinconcord
05-13-03, 06:08 PM
The Charlotte Observer is reporting this afternoon the ACC voted 7 to 2 to add Miami and to expand to 12 teams. The articles says Miami wants Syracuse and Boston College to join the league. But University of Virginia officials are pushing for Virginia Tech to be added instead of Boston College. Duke and North Carolina voted against expansion.
Never, ever, ever did I think I would see the day where UVA would inlude us in the discussion. Never. A VT supporter must have some naked pics of some UVA folks or something. I was surprised when I saw Larry report it before.
pantherguy
05-13-03, 06:27 PM
Does anyone know why Pitt isn't being considered....good football and basketball program....would be a great fit geographically as well...
Originally posted by pantherguy
Does anyone know why Pitt isn't being considered....good football and basketball program....would be a great fit geographically as well...
Not a big TV market.
Its a rivalry. Having UVA and Tech in the same conference will help feed the hate. And sell more tickets.
Tech makes more sense than cuse or BC.
Originally posted by Piper
Its a rivalry. Having UVA and Tech in the same conference will help feed the hate. And sell more tickets.
Tech makes more sense than cuse or BC.
bc -- boston
syracuse -- new york
regarding tv markets, how does securing blacksburg make more sense?
wow
Coach K better start studying football or Wash needs to fire Spurrier real soon. Heels ain't no bettter off. Let the ass whippins commense
Originally posted by LarryD
bc -- boston
syracuse -- new york
regarding tv markets, how does securing blacksburg make more sense?
The thing I don't understand is this:
I don't think the ACC realizes that no one in the northeast really gives a shit about watching college football. It's nowhere near like it is south of the M/D line where college football rules. It takes a HUGE back seat to pro football in the sports pecking order up north. Those markets may be big, but if no one is watching I'm not sure I see the gain.
What KS said.
Tech fans are fairly passionatte. I don't think the SEC would trade Auburn for Boston College, for example.
And the Syracuse ain't that big, and its getting smaller. I assisted a demographic study for Onondaga and Oswego. It's not growing.
but the debate is boston college or virginia tech.
BC's basketball team is better. Va Tech's football is better.
Still Tech. ACC needs the football talent. And a natural rivalry with UVA.
Originally posted by Piper
Still Tech. ACC needs the football talent. And a natural rivalry with UVA.
florida-florida state and miami-florida state work out fine without being in the same conference. compete in every sport. same as tech and uva have done. there's no need to bring them in. they'll still play against each other in every sport.
The Brain
05-13-03, 07:27 PM
this is either gonna be REALLY REALLY good... or REALLY REALLY bad... as far as football goes I like this move... but basketball is where my fears are... I won't lie I'd be VERY disappointed to see a year where Duke/UNC didn't play a home-and-home basketball series.
solarte1969
05-13-03, 07:29 PM
Adam Gold, from 850 the Buzz in Raleigh, will appear on Sports Night to give the Triangle preception to the ACC expansion issue tonight at 11. Hope you can check it out.
T_Schroll
05-13-03, 08:56 PM
They should have went all the way with it. Pitt (better yet West Virginia) and VaTech included with Miami, Syracuse, and BC. No one would ever be able to argue a weak football conference ever again. Yeah it's 14 teams, but who gives a shit as long as the bucks roll in? They can schedule it similar to the SEC. One permanent opponent from the other division (maybe two) and rotate the rest. They have to keep the Big Four together no matter what so I see a setup something like this:
Division A
Duke
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Wake Forest
Boston College
Syracuse
Miami
Division B
Florida State
Clemson
Georgia Tech
Virginia
Maryland
Pittsburgh (or West Virginia)
Virginia Tech
If you folks want a true playoff system instead of Bowl games, this is how you get there. Super Conferences. It'll force the TV guys hand finally.
SilverSurfer
05-13-03, 09:58 PM
So this won't happen this year even if they agree to come, right? According to this link it will be next year.
http://espn.go.com/ncaa/news/2003/0513/1553257.html
Still, I'm stoked. This should make for an interesting upcoming season as there's gonna be a lot to talk about.
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
To me, it doesn't matter either way. VT gives a rivalry, Cuse-BC would give a bit of a rivalry. I'm sure the NC teams will be more in support of VT, because of closer away game support and the fact that they probably don't want more basketball competition.
there was discussion today of adding notre dame.
miami wants two northeast teams in the deal. if the vatech-syracuse swap is a dealbreaker for the acc, then miami will listen to arguments for va tech -- but they said it needs to be a VERY convincing argument.
T_Schroll
05-14-03, 12:53 AM
Notre Dame? They aren't going to give up an exclusive football contract with a network. Are these boys smoking crack?
they debated it for three hours.
logistics aside, grabbing notre dame would be the coup of coups.
adding syracuse, miami and notre dame?
every acc school would shit golden-domed bricks at the financial windfall.
That would be one hell of a football conference.
Notre Dame has no reason to join, though, but from a fans perspective it looks appealing.
UNCfever
05-14-03, 07:04 AM
Originally posted by LarryD
they debated it for three hours.
logistics aside, grabbing notre dame would be the coup of coups.
adding syracuse, miami and notre dame?
every acc school would shit golden-domed bricks at the financial windfall.
Now we are talking. That is what I would love to see happen, but I wonder if ND is just a rumor or not.
mathmajors
05-14-03, 07:54 AM
Uh, Notre Dame isn't on the Atlantic Coast.
:)
The Brain
05-14-03, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by mathmajors
Uh, Notre Dame isn't on the Atlantic Coast.
:) so?
Originally posted by The Brain
so?
It would defeat the purpose of calling it the Atlantic Coast Conference.
Notre Dame should join the big ten. they should also kick northwestern out and bring in pittsburgh. that'd give them 12 teams and a championship game too.
The Brain
05-14-03, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by Savio
It would defeat the purpose of calling it the Atlantic Coast Conference. that name isn't a big deal...
Originally posted by The Brain
that name isn't a big deal...
history is a big deal.
chipshot
05-14-03, 10:11 AM
Arizona or Arizona St. arn't on the Pacific Coast either.
The Brain
05-14-03, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by Savio
history is a big deal. They'd simply call it something like the NACC (North Atlantic Coast Conference)... that way they could get away with it... and it didn't stop any of the other conferences from doing the same
Shocker
05-14-03, 11:06 AM
ACC will now be the best conference in football and basketball. This is great for the league IMO. Just getting a shot at Miami in football is worth it. Next step will be a championship game in football - similar to the Big 12. Will they split into 2 divisions?? Thats the next question.
mathmajors
05-14-03, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by chipshot
Arizona or Arizona St. arn't on the Pacific Coast either.
But what does Pac-10 stand for? 'Pacific-10 Conference'. No mention of a coast at all. :)
mathmajors
05-14-03, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by Shocker
ACC will now be the best conference in football and basketball. This is great for the league IMO. Just getting a shot at Miami in football is worth it. Next step will be a championship game in football - similar to the Big 12. Will they split into 2 divisions?? Thats the next question.
And the question after that is, will they set up a deal to play the title game in Charlotte for years and years to come? :banana:
UNCfever
05-14-03, 12:36 PM
I don't think location really matters as long as the teams are relative to the East Coast. History must not be that big of a deal or they wouldn't expand either. I don't care what they do as long as they keep the main rivalrys in basketball.
I really don't want FSU and Miami in the same bracket though, while that conference would be stacked the other one would be weaker. FSU and Miami could still play eachother every year while not in the same bracket and then if each wins their bracket they could even play twice a year.
mathmajors
05-14-03, 01:50 PM
Both strong in football, both weak in basketball. They'll probably be in the same division.
The Brain
05-14-03, 02:08 PM
The East and West divisions... how I see them fitting best...
East: Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, Wake Forest, Syracuse and Maryland
West: Miami, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Virginia and the Boston College(or Virginia Tech)
How this would benifit each group--
East: This would allow the Big 4 to continue to play each other in home-and-home series in basketball. As far as football these are also the teams that are at the "not quite elite" level and would give them a chance to reach the ACC Championship game every year, and would build them up to later compete better with the West division. It would allow them to recruit better due to making the Championship game.
West: This helps Florida State and Miami achieve their goal of still making a BCS Bowl without cutting each other's throat. If they play early in the year the loser will be able rebound come BCS bid time. Likewise this side is weaker basketball wise and the extra wins in this division would allow lower level teams to move up by extra recruits the wins would bring.
. FSU and Miami could still play eachother every year while not in the same bracket and then if each wins their bracket they could even play twice a year.
that does work but it screws up the rotation of playing other teams in a diffrent division more often. Alabama and Tennessee play each other every year but then it takes a little longer to play other teams. FSU and Miami should be in the same bracket otherwise they would be playing each other in the ACCCG almost every year.
UNCfever
05-14-03, 09:46 PM
I just don't want one division to be a cakewalk in football and the other one tough as hell.
I must be missing something...where does it state that the football and Basketball conferance alignment would have to be the same? You need the big four in the B-ball conferance, but in football those big four are..well at the bottom of the food chain and as such they need to be split so they "can improve" with time.
Basketball:
UNC, Fluke,Wake,NCSU, Virginia,Miami
V-Tech or BC, Virginia, Fla State, G-Tech,Clemson, Suckacuse, Maryland.
This gives maryland and suckacuse a good rivalry to work on and maintains a competative balance while allowing the real ACC teams to play on Tobacco road...adding Miami.
Football:
Miami, UNC,Wake,Virginia, V-Tech or BC, Clemson
Fla State, Suckacuse, Maryland, G-Tech, NCSU, Fluke.
Fluke and UNC are going to get trampled in football, clearly Miami, FSU, BC or V-Tech and suckacuse are stronger programs. Sprinkle in the occasionaly good Maryland, Clemson and NCSU program and this seems like a reasonable balance and these proposals mix in some natural rivalry as well. IE having V-Tech and Virginia together in Football ect ect.
The Brain
05-14-03, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by Foxman
I must be missing something...where does it state that the football and Basketball conferance alignment would have to be the same? You need the big four in the B-ball conferance, but in football those big four are..well at the bottom of the food chain and as such they need to be split so they "can improve" with time.
Basketball:
UNC, Fluke,Wake,NCSU, Virginia,Miami
V-Tech or BC, Virginia, Fla State, G-Tech,Clemson, Suckacuse, Maryland.
This gives maryland and suckacuse a good rivalry to work on and maintains a competative balance while allowing the real ACC teams to play on Tobacco road...adding Miami.
Football:
Miami, UNC,Wake,Virginia, V-Tech or BC, Clemson
Fla State, Suckacuse, Maryland, G-Tech, NCSU, Fluke.
Fluke and UNC are going to get trampled in football, clearly Miami, FSU, BC or V-Tech and suckacuse are stronger programs. Sprinkle in the occasionaly good Maryland, Clemson and NCSU program and this seems like a reasonable balance and these proposals mix in some natural rivalry as well. IE having V-Tech and Virginia together in Football ect ect. Miami would turn down an invite if they aren't in the same division as Fla. St.
Originally posted by The Brain
Miami would turn down an invite if they aren't in the same division as Fla. St.
In both or mainly in B-Ball or mainly in Football? B-Ball would be no sweet substitue FSU for Virginia.
Football would be tricky as it would throw the balance completely off kilter...if that even matters to them... it does to me.
The Brain
05-14-03, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by Foxman
In both or mainly in B-Ball or mainly in Football? B-Ball would be no sweet substitue FSU for Virginia.
Football would be tricky as it would throw the balance completely off kilter...if that even matters to them... it does to me. the divisions would stay the same... it would cost more money to have the divisions mix per sport... and Miami wants Fla. St. in their football division if we're getting technical
UNCfever
05-15-03, 07:01 AM
So say for example FSU and Miami aren't in the same bracket, could we get by with each team having one team from the other bracket they play each year and then rotate the rest of the teams, this could help to keep some rivalrys and to build new ones.
Sackem90
05-15-03, 10:29 AM
Out of the Newsless-Courier in Charleston, SC.
Story last updated at 7:25 a.m. Thursday, May 15, 2003
ACC expansion plans creating ripple effect across country
Associated Press
AMELIA ISLAND, FLA.--Intending to shape the next generation of college sports instead of getting swept up in it, the Atlantic Coast Conference is moving forward with its aggressive expansion plan.
Big East schools Miami, Syracuse and either Boston College or Virginia Tech are the targets of the ACC's expansion, but the move would affect much more than just a few programs.
Sensing that football and the lucrative Bowl Championship Series have made the 12-team superconference the wave of the future, the ACC acted. Commissioner John Swofford acknowledged Wednesday that presidents voted 7-2 the day before to bring three new teams into the fold, with hopes of realignment by 2005.
Now, the suddenly beleaguered Big East, the Pac-10 and everyone in between must scramble to make sure they have the numbers to remain viable over the next several years.
"My posture has always been pro-expansion," Florida State athletic director Dave Hart said. "It's for all the reasons that should be obvious, even if you're a non-visionary."
The nine-team ACC hoped to keep the process quiet. But when John Thrasher, chairman of Florida State's board of trustees, leaked word of the vote Tuesday, expansion became a very public and awkward situation.
Essentially, the ACC is trying to raid the Big East's top teams. It would create a shakeup not seen in college sports since the Southwest Conference disbanded in 1995 and its top teams merged with the Big Eight.
"We're trying to do what's best for our conference in the future," Swofford said.
The Big East, meanwhile, is on a mission to save itself, knowing that if it loses football power Miami along with Syracuse -- this year's basketball champion and a solid football program -- it could turn into an also-ran in the ever-growing big-conference culture.
The Big East's annual meetings begin Saturday near Jacksonville, and they should be intriguing.
"I am anxious to meet with our conference members and am prepared to do whatever it takes to preserve the 24-year history of the Big East Conference," commissioner Mike Tranghese said. "This is a conference that is worth preserving and we should all look forward to the challenge."
Miami athletic director Paul Dee maintains his school has not yet been contacted, and moving is no sure thing. But it seems like the right move. Dee acknowledged the Hurricanes have done feasibility studies that show transferring to the ACC would be financially beneficial.
The ACC's next move is to invite three teams into the league. Each expansion candidate must get votes from seven of the nine league presidents to be invited.
Miami and Syracuse appear to be easy choices, but the third team is trickier. Miami would like to bring Boston College in along with Syracuse. Virginia, at the urging of Gov. Mark R. Warner, wants Virginia Tech.
Swofford, however, knows there have to be three new teams to make this work. Under NCAA rules, conferences aren't allowed to hold a lucrative football title game -- worth $12 million to the Southeastern Conference -- unless they have a dozen teams.
Swofford said he hopes the 12-team conference would begin play by 2005, although it could come sooner; the thought of three teams playing as lame ducks in the Big East for two seasons is awkward.
Either way, terms of TV contracts and the Bowl Championship Series -- the main cash sources for the programs -- will be revamped after the 2005-06 school year.
Those deadlines are likely targets for conferences around the country to reach the 12-team threshold -- meaning practically every team and conference is subject to change.
Already there are rumblings that Big East member Pittsburgh might be lured to the Big Ten to give that conference 12 teams. The Pac-10 would need two more teams, as well. If the Big East was to lose three teams, it might start looking at places like Conference USA to survive.
Then, there's Notre Dame.
A member of the Big East in basketball, the Fighting Irish are one of the few independents left in football.
They have their own TV contract with NBC, a special deal to get into the BCS and what looks like a ton of leverage if they care to be wooed.
The Brain
05-15-03, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by UNCfever
So say for example FSU and Miami aren't in the same bracket, could we get by with each team having one team from the other bracket they play each year and then rotate the rest of the teams, this could help to keep some rivalrys and to build new ones. Miami will NOT join if they aren't in FSU's division... that's not even a viable option
Originally posted by The Brain
Miami will NOT join if they aren't in FSU's division... that's not even a viable option
where did you hear that?
UNCfever
05-15-03, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by The Brain
Miami will NOT join if they aren't in FSU's division... that's not even a viable option
But are they saying that because they want to be sure to play eachother or is this because they want to play eachother once, but have no chance at playing eachother in the playoff/championship game?
Originally posted by UNCfever
But are they saying that because they want to be sure to play eachother or is this because they want to play eachother once, but have no chance at playing eachother in the playoff/championship game?
the reason is, they play each other early in the season where a loss doesnt hurt as much. If they play each other in the ACCCG a loss pretty much kills them.
The Brain
05-15-03, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by UNCfever
But are they saying that because they want to be sure to play eachother or is this because they want to play eachother once, but have no chance at playing eachother in the playoff/championship game? Both actually... they enjoy the Miami/FSU rivalry game because of the revenue it brings in... that's why they've been duing it for years, but by putting them in the same division they both will have a viable shot at a BCS bid... if one of those teams lose later in the year then its VERY possible it could be knocked out of the National Championship game... if they lose earlier in the year they can continue to win and get themselves back into contintion for a National Title shot... and if they are in seperate divisions they will play in the ACC championship at the end of the year... a loss that late hurts more than an early season loss
Shocker
05-15-03, 03:05 PM
This seems fair...
Ranked by sport:
Football:
North - Miami, Maryland, Virginia, Ga Tech, Syracuse, BC
South - Fla St, NC State, Clemson, UNC, Wake, Duke
Basketball
North - Syracuse, Maryland, Ga Tech, Va, Miami, BC
South - UNC, Duke, Wake, NC State, Fla St, Clemson
Seems pretty fair in both to me
The Brain
05-15-03, 03:36 PM
there won't be a seperate basketball and football grouping... the logistics and extra cost for this would cut into the profit... trust me they won't cut out their bottom line.
UNCfever
05-15-03, 04:27 PM
I understand what you are saying about FSU and Miami, so for example you have FSU and Miami in the same bracket and then UNC my team in the other and not saying we are going to be that good, but now a 7-4 or 8-3 mark could easily put us in the championship game. Now if you have FSU and Miami split the bar gets raised a lot where you will need to be 9-2 or better to have a chance I would think. I am looking at this from a recruiting standpoint for teams like UNC and dook which way do you think benifits them the most. Knowing that you could play FSU or Miami in a season or hoping you win your bracket and one of those 2 teams wins theirs to have a chance to play them.
The Brain
05-16-03, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by UNCfever
I understand what you are saying about FSU and Miami, so for example you have FSU and Miami in the same bracket and then UNC my team in the other and not saying we are going to be that good, but now a 7-4 or 8-3 mark could easily put us in the championship game. Now if you have FSU and Miami split the bar gets raised a lot where you will need to be 9-2 or better to have a chance I would think. I am looking at this from a recruiting standpoint for teams like UNC and dook which way do you think benifits them the most. Knowing that you could play FSU or Miami in a season or hoping you win your bracket and one of those 2 teams wins theirs to have a chance to play them. If I'm UNC's coach... and lets say I finish high enough in my division to go to the ACC Championship... and I'm recruiting this is what I tell my recruits... "We were the 2nd best team in the ACC last year. We were won win from being the ACC champs, and we're hoping you can come play for us to help us take that step to be the BEST team next year." ...It doesn't matter if I've got a 7-4 record... and 2 or 3 teams in the other division have better records... because I played in that title game my team was the "2nd best team in the ACC" ...I'm working that angle like a sum bitch... and due to that you WILL get quality recruits... they're ignorant haven't you ever noticed the Wonderlic scores they post to enter the NFL?? and that's AFTER at LEAST a year of college... some would fall for it... for that reason one division builds while the other is in the nation title hunt... in time it would even the playing field
I like the idea of a rotating schedule + natural rival.
For example....
Right now there are 9 teams, so 8 conference games in football and 16 in basketball. Those numbers should stay the same no matter the divisions.
So, at 6 teams a division, you've got 5 football games in your divisions per team, and 10 basketball games in your divisions. This would allow for 1 rival game with the other division in football, and two rotating every year, and double in basketball. That would allow for more natural rivalries to deveop and keep the divisions fairly balanced.
For instance:
South
Florida State
Clemson
Georgia Tech
Wake Forest
Syracuse
Virginia
North
North Carolina
Duke
Miami
NC State
Maryland
Boston College
FSU/Miami would be natural rivals, play every year in football and home/home in b-ball.
Boston College/Syracuse would be natural rivals, to keep the big east/travel rivalry going.
North Carolina would get Wake, Duke would get Virginia, and that leaves State and GTech.
What do you guys think? The divisions are a little topheavy in the south as far as football, but with FSU a little down it makes sense. The north is a little topheavy in basketball, but you HAVE to keep those rivalries intact, and with multiple teams in the tourney the divisions aren't as important in basketball.
chipshot
05-16-03, 02:07 AM
I would say the North in your divisions would be stronger in Football. The South only has Florida St. and maybe Virginia. Who else in there other then on occasion GT is good?
The Brain
05-16-03, 02:51 AM
Originally posted by DJ_Tet
What do you guys think?I'm tellin you it WON'T work... not that its not a bad alignment just the fact that Miami's roll will be butter to get them to come here... they come here we can CHOOSE the other 2... and Miami WANTS to be in Fla. St. division... and you can say well they still play each other normally... well they can answer that with "how can we be assured of that"... the ONLY way they can is to be in the same division... whether any of us like it or not its the ONLY way its gonna happen.
Natural rivals set up upon the new divisions would be a rule. The ACC could make it work. And I think Clemson/GT/Virginia/Syracuse is a LOT stronger in football than UNC/Maryland/Boston College/NC State. Maybe you don't.
UNCfever
05-16-03, 07:09 AM
Either way it works out I am just happy to have Miami in the ACC for football alone. As long as we build it and they come here, with UNC playing dook twice in bball then I could live with it.
A natural rival + 2 other revolving teams per year keeps the in-conference games the same amount (i.e. every team in the ACC currently as well as the new members would have the same opportunity for out of conference games, not less).
It could be written in the by-laws, that those teams would play home and home in basketball as well as once in football every year.
Therefore, like you said earlier, Miami and FSU could play early in the season, and whoever lost still has a shot to get back in the ACC Championship Game.
That way, FSU and Miami could both be 11-1, or 12-0 and 10-2, and both be eligible/probable for BCS Bowls. Huge payday for every ACC team. It makes sense on so many levels.
edit: A team who goes undefeated in the new ACC would be a lock for the National Championship, even if there are two other conferences with undefeated champions imo.
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