View Full Version : Questions for the Atheists
plutosgirl
02-08-04, 09:37 AM
If you don't believe in God, does this mean you don't believe in the supernatural or any type of spirits, ghosts, demons, or any type of parallel to our world? Do you believe that logic or science can explain all of the mysteries of our world that are concrete? I'm not trying to start an ugly debate, I'm truly curious.
BigVito
02-08-04, 09:41 AM
If you don't believe in God, does this mean you don't believe in the supernatural or any type of spirits, ghosts, demons, or any type of parallel to our world? Do you believe that logic or science can explain all of the mysteries of our world that are concrete? I'm not trying to start an ugly debate, I'm truly curious.
In short, yes. While some things do happen that are unexplained and seemingly unexplainable, I do believe there is some basis in science for the occurance. The natural world is far more mysterious than we can imagine yet that doesn't mean it is supernatural.
Miss tery
02-08-04, 09:45 AM
I agree. The 'supernatural' is just science we have not figured out yet. If we do not destroy ourselves as a species, we will eventually have all the knowledge and powers that religions attribute to their gods.
plutosgirl
02-08-04, 09:50 AM
So what are your thoughts on particular subjects? Let's say the pyramids for example, or mass population disappearances, or stonehenge?
PantherPaul
02-08-04, 10:35 AM
I blame Dukie
builder
02-08-04, 10:35 AM
I believe in the power of energy. And those energies are inside of all beings. They give us life and they take it away. We're all connected by those energies. I don't think that one can really ever die. You are simply reborn as another entity and carry on in that form until you're needed somewhere else.
As for the pyramids and stonehenge and such, I think that some people have amazing skills and powers (psychologically speaking) to motivate people to do extraordinary feats that they wouldn't be able to do otherwise. Sometimes this is wrapped up in the guise of religion. The basics of the major religions are pretty much the same. You've got a savior, sinners, and a clear way of getting to the other side. There's no coincidence in that since we're all connected by our subconscious.
And those people disappearing, I haven't a clue. But sometimes, people get fed up with something and just move. They don't want to bring the old life with them so they leave everything and go. It can really fuck with the people that are left behind. Just a guess.
SandMan
02-08-04, 10:38 AM
If you believe in God or not, it is all about "faith". You either have it or you don't.
My struggles not only with some of the readings in the Bible but readings in History... especially BC and 500 - 1000 years ago is simply that we rely on the writings that have been passed down / interpreted etc for generations. A persons interpretations of things 2000 years ago could be so labeled with bias that we will never know.
The Bible itself has evolved into many many Religous sectors all with different approaches to Christianity. Who is right who is wrong???
Faith in whatever it is you beleive... if you question your faith then before long you will have none. I can say life itself has been better for me during times of strong faith than times without it.
plutosgirl
02-08-04, 11:17 AM
These are the kinds of answers I wanted, thanks. I admit I don't have the answers for some of this stuff but I have the luxury of saying it's God related. I wondered for those who don't have that, how they answer those questions. It would bother me if I couldn't at least have an idea about it.
Builder, I believe a lot like you in that the energies we have refocus and add to our lives. That's what I call Karma- what you put out, you get back. I also like to see solid scientific answers for things, but I believe God is the ultimate scientist. It might be a simpleton approach, but I'm comfortable with it. (Annelle) Steel Magnolia's reference 364128 a.
I believe in the power of energy. And those energies are inside of all beings. They give us life and they take it away. We're all connected by those energies. I don't think that one can really ever die. You are simply reborn as another entity and carry on in that form until you're needed somewhere else.
So what you're saying is that you're a Jedi.
builder
02-08-04, 11:44 AM
Builder, I believe a lot like you in that the energies we have refocus and add to our lives. That's what I call Karma- what you put out, you get back. I also like to see solid scientific answers for things, but I believe God is the ultimate scientist. It might be a simpleton approach, but I'm comfortable with it. (Annelle) Steel Magnolia's reference 364128 a.
Nice work!
I say there is a good and an evil power in the universe. Some call them God and Satan. I choose not to. I see them as the movements of winds across the plains, the beauty of a sunset, the smile on a small child in the grocery store elbows deep in a box of fudge covered cookies. We all have our own ways of explaining things. Some allow the bible or other religious texts to dictate the way they should live their lives. I try to give as much as I want in return and hope that when I die, I am comfortable with the choices I've made and my energies will continue on to the next phase. My luck, I'll be back in 70 years as a moss stuck to the North side of a tree. Nature will force me to relax whereas in this life, I don't do enough of that.
builder
02-08-04, 11:45 AM
So what you're saying is that you're a Jedi.
I'm sorry, I know that's a Star Wars thing. But I've never seen any of the movies all the way through except Phantom Menace and won't be bothered to see the others anytime soon.
plutosgirl
02-08-04, 12:06 PM
I try to give as much as I want in return and hope that when I die, I am comfortable with the choices I've made and my energies will continue on to the next phase. My luck, I'll be back in 70 years as a moss stuck to the North side of a tree. Nature will force me to relax whereas in this life, I don't do enough of that.
Aye if it's our destiny, I hope that I shall be the tree on which you are stuck upon.
;)
( so we can cast stones at the rest of the forest ) :boune:
builder
02-08-04, 12:07 PM
Aye if it's our destiny, I hope that I shall be the tree on which you are stuck upon.
;)
( so we can cast stones at the rest of the forest ) :boune:
I hope you're a Brazil nut tree. We'll have plenty of ammo. :D
I'm sorry, I know that's a Star Wars thing. But I've never seen any of the movies all the way through except Phantom Menace and won't be bothered to see the others anytime soon.
people that refuse to keep up culture baffle me.
builder
02-08-04, 12:09 PM
people that refuse to keep up culture baffle me.
What do you mean? Have you seen Priscilla, Queen of the desert? Have you seen Torch Song Trilogy? Have you seen To Wong Foo, Thanks for the Memories? Probably not. Culture and belief is in the eye of the beholder.
plutosgirl
02-08-04, 12:10 PM
people that refuse to keep up culture baffle me.
Hmmm I wouldn't call Star Wars culture. Nope, huh uh.
What do you mean? Have you seen Priscilla, Queen of the desert? Have you seen Torch Song Trilogy? Have you seen To Wong Foo, Thanks for the Memories? Probably not. Culture and belief is in the eye of the beholder.
excuse me - I meant pop culture - and pop culture, by definition, is not at all in the eye of the beholder.
plutosgirl
02-08-04, 12:41 PM
Ok let's bring this back around. Builder- if you believe in reincarnation (or something of the sort) and believe that our energies pass into other things, wouldn't this make you closer to an agnostic rather than an atheist? I mean, those rules don't apply to simple logic and science. Splain.
(I hope a brazil nut tree is tall, graceful and slender) :p
sdplusbeauty
02-08-04, 01:10 PM
What do you mean? Have you seen Priscilla, Queen of the desert? Have you seen Torch Song Trilogy? Have you seen To Wong Foo, Thanks for the Memories? Probably not. Culture and belief is in the eye of the beholder.
I agree.. cause i've never been a sci-fi culture fan.
About this religion belief thing.. I truly believe that there is a God, although I question the validity of such as the bible and "religion" itself.. I continue to pray and meditate and I believe in spirits and ghosts as well.
HulkaManiaRunninWild
02-08-04, 01:16 PM
If you don't believe in God, does this mean you don't believe in the supernatural or any type of spirits, ghosts, demons, or any type of parallel to our world? Do you believe that logic or science can explain all of the mysteries of our world that are concrete? I'm not trying to start an ugly debate, I'm truly curious.
Perhaps atheists and agnostics need something tangible when it comes to the unknown instead of simply deifying it.
barry49s
02-08-04, 01:20 PM
So what are your thoughts on particular subjects? Let's say the pyramids for example, or mass population disappearances, or stonehenge?
Souldn't the atheists be asking the religious crowd this question?
Do you thing God waved his hands around and created these things?
sdplusbeauty
02-08-04, 01:23 PM
Souldn't the atheists be asking the religious crowd this question?
Do you thing God waved his hands around and created these things?
It was aliens.
plutosgirl
02-08-04, 01:42 PM
Souldn't the atheists be asking the religious crowd this question?
Do you thing God waved his hands around and created these things?
Good question -I've wondered if one believes in aliens or other intelligent life forms, reincarnation, amazing science or anything other than pure logic, why is it such a far stretch to believe in God? ( goes along with what I was disucussing with builder)
Actually I don't believe that he waved his hands and created most of these things, I believe he could though. I think it all ties in. I want to believe in reincarnation and incidently Christianity did support it until I think, the 1200's and the pope decided we didn't anymore. (hasbeens would have to verify that for me) I just think it's all related, karma, nature, science, intelligence, energy, but all those things are too powerful not to have a creator. Science and nature are just too amazing to have just 'happened', in my opinion.
It was aliens.
aliens only tutor Jews with dyslexia...they dont create things
sdplusbeauty
02-08-04, 01:47 PM
aliens only tutor Jews with dyslexia...they dont create things
What about crop circles?
What about crop circles?
those are learning devices...only people with dyslexia can read them because the contort it into letters
barry49s
02-08-04, 02:54 PM
Good question -I've wondered if one believes in aliens or other intelligent life forms, reincarnation, amazing science or anything other than pure logic, why is it such a far stretch to believe in God? ( goes along with what I was disucussing with builder)
Actually I don't believe that he waved his hands and created most of these things, I believe he could though. I think it all ties in. I want to believe in reincarnation and incidently Christianity did support it until I think, the 1200's and the pope decided we didn't anymore. (hasbeens would have to verify that for me) I just think it's all related, karma, nature, science, intelligence, energy, but all those things are too powerful not to have a creator. Science and nature are just too amazing to have just 'happened', in my opinion.
You sound agnostic, not Christian.
builder
02-08-04, 03:17 PM
I just think it's all related, karma, nature, science, intelligence, energy, but all those things are too powerful not to have a creator. Science and nature are just too amazing to have just 'happened', in my opinion.
I dunno. I think that once you get a spurt of energy and things start moving, there's no way to stop it. The laws of physics take care of the rest. All it needed was a single spark. And there's no way to know where it came from, but when I go home to my parents, I am reminded that a single oak tree that I planted when I was seven is now many many times bigger than the little acorn I put in the ground with a little fertilizer. It took some severe negotiations to keep my parents from cutting that tree down.
plutosgirl
02-08-04, 03:22 PM
You sound agnostic, not Christian.
Wrong. I am very committed to believing in God, believing in Jesus Christ and that he was the son of God. That's what makes me a Christian. However, I believe no organized religion has all the exact answers yet and to stand on the rock and shout "I'm right, you're wrong" is anything but Christain like.
I can put my hands on the pyramids, stonehenge etc... yet they are unexplainable to this date. One might say aliens, science or things they don't fathom yet are responsible. I agree, I just think God was the one behind it. Ie... child birth is a miracle, it's natural, it's science in the purest form, but God created it.
Village Idiot
02-08-04, 03:33 PM
I started a bible reading class at church. It is a Sunday school class for those who have never read the bible and for those that have a passion for the word, like me. You would not believe the folks that have went to church all their lives, claim to be Christian but have never read the word. I cant understand this. But anyway, I challenge all who have questions about God or Jesus to open their bible and seek out the answers for themselves. You're gonna get 10 different answers from 10 different people otherwise. I generally dont like to argue with non-beleivers (not that this is an argument) whether there is a God or not. The Gospel is out there. The choice is ours to make. God loves us that much...to create us as free moral agents. Many who try and force their religious views on others dont have a good grasp on the love of God or the word IMO. I may say what I think, but I'm not gonna be judging anyone. Thats not my job.
btw.....Christians are mere humans also, we make mistakes like everyone else. Lord knows I have.
barry49s
02-08-04, 06:51 PM
Wrong. I am very committed to believing in God, believing in Jesus Christ and that he was the son of God. That's what makes me a Christian. However, I believe no organized religion has all the exact answers yet and to stand on the rock and shout "I'm right, you're wrong" is anything but Christain like.
I can put my hands on the pyramids, stonehenge etc... yet they are unexplainable to this date. One might say aliens, science or things they don't fathom yet are responsible. I agree, I just think God was the one behind it. Ie... child birth is a miracle, it's natural, it's science in the purest form, but God created it.
Then you don't truly believe. Either you think your religion is the true religion or you don't, you can't have it both ways and be a true believer. You sound like one of these people that either believes because someone told you to believe or because you are afraid there is not an after life. Probably a little of both if you are like most people.
You sound agnostic, not Christian.
and Miss Tery is often antagonistic and not athiest
barry49s
02-08-04, 06:57 PM
You would not believe the folks that have went to church all their lives, claim to be Christian but have never read the word. I cant understand this.
I can understand this. People are for the most part sheep when it comes to religion and politics. They follow the same religion and political party as their parents without thinking, reading and reasoning for themselves.
Village, would you agree or disagree with that?
plutosgirl
02-08-04, 08:15 PM
Then you don't truly believe. Either you think your religion is the true religion or you don't, you can't have it both ways and be a true believer. You sound like one of these people that either believes because someone told you to believe or because you are afraid there is not an after life. Probably a little of both if you are like most people.
Imagine that, it took a complete stranger on the internet and 30 some years to finally tell me what I believe, how totally arrogant of you. I can have it both ways because it's my belief. The bible speaks of things we don't have an understanding of, and won't in this life. That's what I attribute to the mysteries of this world. Don't ask me to find that right away because I had an argument in a graduate class with my professor about it and he proved me wrong, but I don't know where to put my hands on it at this time and I would hate to call the bishop this time of night. That would be the same graduate class someone told me to take and told me to pass because I can't have an original thought.
I'm curious what your belief is if you feel you can tell me what mine is. If you are an atheist, you haven't answered the original question of how you explain these things-if you believe in God, again- how do you explain it?
plutosgirl
02-08-04, 10:35 PM
I started a bible reading class at church. It is a Sunday school class for those who have never read the bible and for those that have a passion for the word, like me. You would not believe the folks that have went to church all their lives, claim to be Christian but have never read the word. I cant understand this. But anyway, I challenge all who have questions about God or Jesus to open their bible and seek out the answers for themselves. You're gonna get 10 different answers from 10 different people otherwise. I generally dont like to argue with non-beleivers (not that this is an argument) whether there is a God or not. The Gospel is out there. The choice is ours to make. God loves us that much...to create us as free moral agents. Many who try and force their religious views on others dont have a good grasp on the love of God or the word IMO. I may say what I think, but I'm not gonna be judging anyone. Thats not my job.
btw.....Christians are mere humans also, we make mistakes like everyone else. Lord knows I have.
Good for you Tank ( always be tank to me), I've never known you to be anything but kind and I appreciate that. I'm the first to admit I need to read more. I know nothing about the bible compared to some and I spent years and years in a Baptist church. I've said it before, my younger years in church were spent being scared into believing instead of learning. You are right though, it's all there for our taking.
damn that tank dude is hard to keep up with
the cops in Mooresville must be looking for him :D
oops - well his cover is blown now :P
plutosgirl
02-08-04, 10:40 PM
damn that tank dude is hard to keep up with
the cops in Mooresville must be looking for him :D
oops - well his cover is blown now :P
I guess this makes me a narc. :( ( i was thinking it was common knowledge for some reason)
it ain't the first time he's gone undercover and on another board he has another name too.
( named after a tasty southern treat )
I suppose if he's starting bible studies the cops aren't really looking for him :)
plutosgirl
02-08-04, 11:21 PM
( named after a tasty southern treat )
:)
You talkin about Chittlin'? :)
[QUOTE=plutosgirl]These are the kinds of answers I wanted, thanks. I admit I don't have the answers for some of this stuff but I have the luxury of saying it's God related. I wondered for those who don't have that, how they answer those questions. It would bother me if I couldn't at least have an idea about it.
QUOTE]
I can't wait until the Tech section comes back. Until then, I'm back in R&R for a bit.
Anyway, what you are saying is why many Agnostics and Atheists look down on the religious - you take the easy way out and just say mysteries are "God related". Why not try to explain the mystery, find a cause, strive to more fully understand the world we live in? For that matter, how many people understand how their car works? Do you think it is God-powered just because you are ingnorant? Hell, why not believe in Aliens instead of God, which is more likely and can fully explain ANYTHING?
I have no problem with the spiritual person, but Religions are a joke. If I had "an experience of God", I might believe as well. Or I might think I'd taken one hit of acid too many. Dunno. But I damn sure can't believe in some supernatural power beyond my experience just because there are things out there I don't understand.
Superfluous_Nut
02-09-04, 02:54 AM
I can put my hands on the pyramids, stonehenge etc... yet they are unexplainable to this date.
exactly what is unexplainable about them?
If you don't believe in God, does this mean you don't believe in the supernatural or any type of spirits, ghosts, demons, or any type of parallel to our world? Do you believe that logic or science can explain all of the mysteries of our world that are concrete? I'm not trying to start an ugly debate, I'm truly curious.
vampires and zombies are not spirits
barry49s
02-09-04, 08:57 AM
Imagine that, it took a complete stranger on the internet and 30 some years to finally tell me what I believe, how totally arrogant of you. I can have it both ways because it's my belief. The bible speaks of things we don't have an understanding of, and won't in this life. That's what I attribute to the mysteries of this world. Don't ask me to find that right away because I had an argument in a graduate class with my professor about it and he proved me wrong, but I don't know where to put my hands on it at this time and I would hate to call the bishop this time of night. That would be the same graduate class someone told me to take and told me to pass because I can't have an original thought.
I'm curious what your belief is if you feel you can tell me what mine is. If you are an atheist, you haven't answered the original question of how you explain these things-if you believe in God, again- how do you explain it?
I didn't tell you what your belief is, you told what your beleif is. Don't get mad at me because I broke down what you said. That's what people do on message boards.
Look, if you follow a religion and you truly believe, then the other religions are wrong, plain and simple. That's why I could never follow a certain religion. i would have to believe that everyone besides people in my religion are going to hell. Now, that is arrogant since there is no concrete proof that one certain religion is the true religion.
I would label myself as agnostic. I think there may be some supreme being that we haven't quite figured out just yet. Then again, I don't think about it that much, so there you go.
Ice Man
02-09-04, 10:09 AM
Wrong. I am very committed to believing in God, believing in Jesus Christ and that he was the son of God. That's what makes me a Christian.
I have a question do you go to church, pray, or read your Bible on a regualar basis?
Anyway, what you are saying is why many Agnostics and Atheists look down on the religious - you take the easy way out and just say mysteries are "God related". Why not try to explain the mystery, find a cause, strive to more fully understand the world we live in? For that matter, how many people understand how their car works? Do you think it is God-powered just because you are ingnorant? Hell, why not believe in Aliens instead of God, which is more likely and can fully explain ANYTHING?
I don't think God powers my car, but I'm pretty sure it's the devil that keeps fucking it up.
Village Idiot
02-09-04, 01:43 PM
Yes Norman, I would agree with you.
Hey PG, you sho am a nice lady, my friend.
wossa, I thought you knew. Me and the po-leece go way back but them days is over. Most of them are retired now anyways.
plutosgirl
02-09-04, 09:40 PM
Sup Nut- There are theories but it hasn't been proven why they exist or how they were made and I've seen you at work in NOTD, I don't want to argue with you. :worried:
Barry- I disagree with you that if you are one religion, that the others are all wrong. I believe that is one of the biggest problems with organized religion. If you had read what I have written you would see we agreed that there is no proof that one religion is THE religion. But, that doesn't mean I don't believe in God. I have a hard time believing some of the most devout, loving, honest people I have met whom are muslim or jewish will go to hell because they don't believe Jesus Christ was the saviour. That's hard for me to accept- I struggle with it.
Ice- I pray every day, have read the bible less in the last few years than ever, and I attend church infrequently as I haven't joined a church since I moved to Charlotte, only visit. But, this wasn't supposed to be about me.
Bootay- no one could be sorrier the tech forum is closed then I. I do agree that agnostics/atheists use that as their biggest argument that people who believe in God take the easy way out. I don't know the answers, that's why I'm asking. If you will take note- no one has even come close to answering how they personally explain the unexplainable, they've only explained what faults they have found in my wording.
I believe in God- it's not a test, there won't be a finish line until I die- but it's an ongoing process. I am the first to admit I'm a little wishy washy in my thinking still. I was raised by a mother who was a very strict Baptist that never missed church, using God as the reasoning for her every move, and a father who had to know how the zipper worked before he would zip his pants. He believed nothing until he had studied until he could teach it. I am a product of my environment. Cut me some slack.
I would still like to see some answers here though.
I believe that man is the highest form of animal life on this planet... most of the time. A brain to use with an opposable thumb came in handy and put us at the top of the food chain. I think it is ego and being aware that we are going to die eventually that brings about contemplation of a higher being. All other animals do not realize they are going to die so they have no need for a God. Shirley we must be more that just an animal with a more developed brain. Otherwise we are just fooling ourselves with our George Foreman grills and message boards ;)
Hi plu :wavey:
If you will take note- no one has even come close to answering how they personally explain the unexplainable, they've only explained what faults they have found in my wording.
How do we explain the unexplainable? We don't believe it is unexplainable, we just haven't figured it out yet. I think you've had that answer numerous times already...
SandMan
02-09-04, 10:30 PM
Barry- I disagree with you that if you are one religion, that the others are all wrong. I believe that is one of the biggest problems with organized religion. If you had read what I have written you would see we agreed that there is no proof that one religion is THE religion. But, that doesn't mean I don't believe in God. I have a hard time believing some of the most devout, loving, honest people I have met whom are muslim or jewish will go to hell because they don't believe Jesus Christ was the saviour. That's hard for me to accept- I struggle with it.
no one has even come close to answering how they personally explain
If you'd take me off ignore or admit you did not read what I posted, you would not have made that last comment... ;)
P.S. ther is no explanation, only thoughts/opinions.
plutosgirl
02-09-04, 10:47 PM
I believe that man is the highest form of animal life on this planet... most of the time. A brain to use with an opposable thumb came in handy and put us at the top of the food chain. I think it is ego and being aware that we are going to die eventually that brings about contemplation of a higher being. All other animals do not realize they are going to die so they have no need for a God. Shirley we must be more that just an animal with a more developed brain. Otherwise we are just fooling ourselves with our George Foreman grills and message boards ;)
Hi plu :wavey:
Thanks for answering Reb and stop calling me Shirley. :tongue3: So you think an intelligent Egyptian with a bag full of red bud built the pyramids?
SandMan
02-09-04, 11:43 PM
I now recall why I stopped posting here so much...
Superfluous_Nut
02-09-04, 11:55 PM
Sup Nut- There are theories but it hasn't been proven why they exist or how they were made and I've seen you at work in NOTD, I don't want to argue with you. :worried:
why they exist? people build stuff. they've been building all sorts of stuff. they're made of stone like everything else people of those times tended to build things.
how they were made is the mystery, but i think it's not that big a mystery, really. people today have a tendency to discount the abilities of early civilizations. they think figuring out how to get stuff done is somehow related to being "modern". i think people are pretty darned amazing even without technology.
thor heyerdahl sailed across the pacific ocean (from peru to polynesia) in a balsa raft with no modern technology. as we distance ourselves from the need to do things manually, we lose the ability to relate the capability. ever see somebody spend 20 minutes looking for the remote control?
I believe that man is the highest form of animal life on this planet... most of the time. A brain to use with an opposable thumb came in handy and put us at the top of the food chain. I think it is ego and being aware that we are going to die eventually that brings about contemplation of a higher being. All other animals do not realize they are going to die so they have no need for a God. Shirley we must be more that just an animal with a more developed brain. Otherwise we are just fooling ourselves with our George Foreman grills and message boards ;)
Hi plu :wavey:
:wavey: and wonderfully stated........................LarryD, i told you that Reb was da man and not these other so called talking-fingers
Thanks for answering Reb and stop calling me Shirley. :tongue3: So you think an intelligent Egyptian with a bag full of red bud built the pyramids?
Pretty much, the pyramids are a big deal because they are big and have been around a long time and point a certain direction. Do you know the big square that carpenters use today was found inside the pyramids. Today it is called the framing square and is made of metal. The ones they found were made of wood. You don't need a god to stack blocks, just a square and a bunch of labor.
barry49s
02-10-04, 08:33 AM
Barry- I disagree with you that if you are one religion, that the others are all wrong.
Then you don't truly believe in your religion.
I believe that is one of the biggest problems with organized religion.
Me too.
If you had read what I have written you would see we agreed that there is no proof that one religion is THE religion. But, that doesn't mean I don't believe in God.
Okay, so you believe in God. Why do you believe in the God that you believe in? Since there is no concrete proof that your God is the true God, why not follow a couple other Gods too?
I have a hard time believing some of the most devout, loving, honest people I have met whom are muslim or jewish will go to hell because they don't believe Jesus Christ was the saviour. That's hard for me to accept- I struggle with it.
Me too.
barry49s
02-10-04, 08:41 AM
I think it is ego and being aware that we are going to die eventually that brings about contemplation of a higher being.
I agree. People are scared shitless that death means the end. I don't understand this fear. Maybe if I were confronted with a life threatning situation I would understand. I doubt it.
Religion was created to relieve man's fear of dieing.
Churches were created to take people's money. :D
hasbeen99
02-10-04, 11:43 AM
The basics of the major religions are pretty much the same. You've got a savior, sinners, and a clear way of getting to the other side.
Just for the record, this is incorrect. Christianity is the only major religion with a savior. The rest have prophets, messengers, or teachers (if anything) interceding between man and the deity.
hasbeen99
02-10-04, 11:48 AM
My struggles not only with some of the readings in the Bible but readings in History... especially BC and 500 - 1000 years ago is simply that we rely on the writings that have been passed down / interpreted etc for generations. A persons interpretations of things 2000 years ago could be so labeled with bias that we will never know.
That's why consistencies are so important when trying to study and interpret the Bible. The Bible spans a time period of over 1000 years with over 50 different authors. Biases tend to stick out rather than conform.
hasbeen99
02-10-04, 11:51 AM
About this religion belief thing.. I truly believe that there is a God, although I question the validity of such as the bible and "religion" itself.. I continue to pray and meditate and I believe in spirits and ghosts as well.
If you don't mind me asking, why do out doubt the validity of the Bible? Or maybe a better question would be, to what extent do you doubt it?
hasbeen99
02-10-04, 11:55 AM
[Re: Stonehenge, the great pyramids, etc.] Souldn't the atheists be asking the religious crowd this question?
Do you thing God waved his hands around and created these things?
I honestly don't know how those things were built. If pressed, I'd lean more toward them being truly astonishing feats of engineering than anything else. I don't think God inspired them or created them. As for other options, I haven't seen enough evidence to rule anything out completely. :huh:
hasbeen99
02-10-04, 11:58 AM
Good question -I've wondered if one believes in aliens or other intelligent life forms, reincarnation, amazing science or anything other than pure logic, why is it such a far stretch to believe in God? ( goes along with what I was disucussing with builder)
If I were to guess I'd say the main reason is accountability/submission, making it more of a "don't want to believe" more than a "can't believe". Think about it -- if God exists, it changes everything.
hasbeen99
02-10-04, 12:03 PM
I want to believe in reincarnation and incidently Christianity did support it until I think, the 1200's and the pope decided we didn't anymore. (hasbeens would have to verify that for me).
I think Judaism considers the possibility of reincarnation, but I'm not really sure. Reincarnation has never been Biblical, however, nor has it ever been a part of the true doctrine of Christianity. According to Jesus, we only get one shot on this planet -- there are no second chances. That, specifically, is why He came.
hasbeen99
02-10-04, 12:16 PM
Wrong. I am very committed to believing in God, believing in Jesus Christ and that he was the son of God. That's what makes me a Christian.
Not quite. People all over the world, including me for many years, profess to 'believe in Jesus', but that does not make them Christians (Matthew 7). A more accurate description of a Christian (based on John 3:16) would be someone who trusts in Jesus to save them. But even then, that's only half the equation. A Christian is also someone who has made a promise to God to live out the rest of his life in obedience to Him. That is not to say he always lives up to that promise, but the evidence of a person's faith is seen in his commitment to living out that promise.
hasbeen99
02-10-04, 12:21 PM
I believe no organized religion has all the exact answers yet and to stand on the rock and shout "I'm right, you're wrong" is anything but Christain like.
I understand your point, and to an extent I agree with it. But I also think it depends highly on who you're shouting to, and what they believe. Paul did a lot of shouting "I'm right and you're wrong" during his ministry, especially in Greece.
magnumforce
02-10-04, 12:24 PM
First I am an agnostic, with leanings towards being an atheist. People have bastardise religion so much to suit their needs. Some examples. The Spanish inquistion maimed, tortured and killed thosands in the name of religion. Columbus and the rest of the europeans used it as an excuse to kill millions of native americans. Slave owners allowed slaves to become religious so they could use it to control their slaves and to justify the institution of same.
The religious right (I know not all of them) uses it to justify the killing of gay couples, abortion doctors, and the trampling of civil rights. I don't see how a "God" could allow that to happen. These views are my views and do not represent my employers, family and friends
hasbeen99
02-10-04, 12:31 PM
Many who try and force their religious views on others dont have a good grasp on the love of God or the word IMO. I may say what I think, but I'm not gonna be judging anyone. Thats not my job.
:applause:
hasbeen99
02-10-04, 12:37 PM
I can understand this. People are for the most part sheep when it comes to religion and politics. They follow the same religion and political party as their parents without thinking, reading and reasoning for themselves.
I don't know about 'most', but I'd definitely say 'way too many'. I think there's an issue of far too many people simply taking someone else's word as gold without doing at least some research for themselves.
hasbeen99
02-10-04, 12:57 PM
I disagree with you that if you are one religion, that the others are all wrong. I believe that is one of the biggest problems with organized religion. If you had read what I have written you would see we agreed that there is no proof that one religion is THE religion. But, that doesn't mean I don't believe in God. I have a hard time believing some of the most devout, loving, honest people I have met whom are muslim or jewish will go to hell because they don't believe Jesus Christ was the saviour. That's hard for me to accept- I struggle with it.
Plu, there are obviously strong similarities between the Christian denominations, and even some between the major religions. But the identity of Jesus makes Christianity largely irreconcilable with the other mainstream world religions. When disagreements come about who Jesus of Nazereth really was/is, someone is going to be right, and someone is going to be wrong.
That being said, I strongly disagree with those who claim that only Christians will spend eternity in heaven. In Romans 2, the Bible provides an alternate means of judgment for those who have been indoctrinated into different belief systems, and those who have never heard the Gospel.
hasbeen99
02-10-04, 01:17 PM
First I am an agnostic, with leanings towards being an atheist. People have bastardise religion so much to suit their needs. Some examples. The Spanish inquistion maimed, tortured and killed thosands in the name of religion. Columbus and the rest of the europeans used it as an excuse to kill millions of native americans. Slave owners allowed slaves to become religious so they could use it to control their slaves and to justify the institution of same.
The religious right (I know not all of them) uses it to justify the killing of gay couples, abortion doctors, and the trampling of civil rights. I don't see how a "God" could allow that to happen.
First, I want you to know that I share your frustration and anger about people in power using religion to serve their own ends. You are absolutely correct -- people have done terrible things throughout history and slapped God's name on it in an attempt to make it right, when nothing could be further from the truth.
God allows it to happen because He has given everyone free will. That decision gives each both the ability to truly love, and the ability to do unspeakable evil. The promise is that in the end, God will hold each of us accountable for our decisions.
I would ask you not to define God only by the people who claim His name. In my experience, both science and nature have been very strong witnesses in favor of the existence of God. It's not a bad way to get an insight into His character without too much human 'interference'. :wink2:
Miss tery
02-10-04, 05:46 PM
That being said, I strongly disagree with those who claim that only Christians will spend eternity in heaven. In Romans 2, the Bible provides an alternate means of judgment for those who have been indoctrinated into different belief systems, and those who have never heard the Gospel.
How about those that are really, really good people but don't believe squat?
How about those that are really, really good people but don't believe squat?
Then you're doomed to spend eternity listening to jay leno monlogues
El Bastardo
02-10-04, 05:50 PM
There is no dog...
ezy ryder
02-10-04, 05:50 PM
How about those that are really, really good people but don't believe squat?
You don't have to worry about being one of those.
How about those that are really, really good people but don't believe squat?
The pee runs down their leg instead of splattering on the ground.
ezy ryder
02-10-04, 05:53 PM
They spend all of eternity handing out Leiberman flyers at train stations. At the end of the day thy get a karate chop like a rabbit.
They spend all of eternity handing out Leiberman flyers at train stations. At the end of the day thy get a karate chop like a rabbit.
:D I AM gonna chop that guy if he bothers me tonight.
Village Idiot
02-10-04, 05:59 PM
How about those that are really, really good people but don't believe squat?They have to spend eternity with Tommy Perkins.
Ohhohohohahahahehehehelmaoroflmao.
and Beaker. :)
Superfluous_Nut
02-10-04, 05:59 PM
The pee runs down their leg instead of splattering on the ground.
k, that has got to be the worst joke i've ever heard... which i think is sorta what you were going for. well done.
k, that has got to be the worst joke i've ever heard... which i think is sorta what you were going for. well done.
It's late. I'm slipping. I need the dancing monkeys at this point.
Please, please let me go home.
hasbeen99
02-10-04, 07:41 PM
Hasbeen:
You're late. :)
Traffic. :D
hasbeen99
02-10-04, 07:46 PM
How about those that are really, really good people but don't believe squat?
They get judged -- not punished necessarily, but judged. Too many people want to equate those two terms. The key to how they're judged is found in why they don't believe squat.
barry49s
02-10-04, 08:22 PM
God allows it to happen because He has given everyone free will.
That's convenient.
barry49s
02-10-04, 08:29 PM
They get judged -- not punished necessarily, but judged. Too many people want to equate those two terms. The key to how they're judged is found in why they don't believe squat.
I asked Jesus to come into my heart when I was 12. Hey, it seemed like the thing to do. I pretty much haven't been to church, prayed or quite frankly believed in God since,oh, about 15. I'm pretty much a law biding citizen, kind to animals and do recycle. Will I go to heaven or hell? In other words, is there an expiration date on being saved? :drums:
plutosgirl
02-11-04, 09:49 AM
I promise not to bump this thread again. I just wanted to thank Hasbeens for joining in and tell Sandman that I did read your posts, I don't have you on ignore you have a valid point. Thanks for answering.
Barry I don't know the answer to your last question. 'Once saved, always saved' is something I've always heard in relation to that, but if your heart wasn't in it when you did it, who knows? Hasbeens? Good question, what do you think?
Bootay- some might call a religious experience seeing Widespread Panic at Red Rocks in Colorado. You have to allow it to happen though.
hasbeen99
02-11-04, 11:31 AM
That's convenient.
Not really. Free will makes just about everything harder and more complicated.
hasbeen99
02-11-04, 11:40 AM
I asked Jesus to come into my heart when I was 12. Hey, it seemed like the thing to do. I pretty much haven't been to church, prayed or quite frankly believed in God since,oh, about 15. I'm pretty much a law biding citizen, kind to animals and do recycle. Will I go to heaven or hell? In other words, is there an expiration date on being saved? :drums:
There isn't an expiration date, no. But do you deny now what you believed then? It's not about jumping through certain hoops or saying the magic words -- it's about faith, submission and commitment.
Bootay- some might call a religious experience seeing Widespread Panic at Red Rocks in Colorado. You have to allow it to happen though.
What is Widespread Panic at Red Rocks in Colorado?
ezy ryder
02-11-04, 01:55 PM
Widespread Panic is a band. Red Rocks is an outdoor amphitheater
http://www.redrocksonline.com/05_photogallery/media/gallery_07.jpg
What about these folks who wait until the end to get saved. I think that is the best deal going. Party down and if you get old and time it right you can get saved ... just in case :D... and ministers are glad to do it. Kinda cheapens the whole deal doesn't it :)
I see it happen a lot. Especially old guys who have had heart attacks, all the sudden it's all about God.
hasbeen99
02-11-04, 08:04 PM
What about these folks who wait until the end to get saved. I think that is the best deal going. Party down and if you get old and time it right you can get saved ... just in case :D... and ministers are glad to do it. Kinda cheapens the whole deal doesn't it :)
I see it happen a lot. Especially old guys who have had heart attacks, all the sudden it's all about God.
As long as a person's still breathing, it's not too late. And yeah, I can see where that looks like a pretty good deal. There are two major problems with that strategy though. First, God holds people accountable for the gifts, talents, and time they've been given. If a person only gives the last 5 minutes of his life to God, it won't look too good standing before God. You're still there, but there are (according to the Bible) vastly different levels of reward in heaven. Second, we never know if we'll get that deathbed opportunity until we're actually on it. Death is notoriously unpredictable. :)
Miss tery
02-11-04, 08:06 PM
They get judged -- not punished necessarily, but judged. Too many people want to equate those two terms. The key to how they're judged is found in why they don't believe squat.
I was just being flippant. As a total non-believer the end result to me is ashes and/or recycled body parts. Nada as far as consciousness or continuity. I see no difference between my life and any other animal on the planet.
barry49s
02-12-04, 08:03 AM
'Once saved, always saved'
Thank God! :banana:
barry49s
02-12-04, 08:04 AM
There isn't an expiration date, no. But do you deny now what you believed then? It's not about jumping through certain hoops or saying the magic words -- it's about faith, submission and commitment.
I'm screwed. :mercy:
barry49s
02-12-04, 08:12 AM
You're still there, but there are (according to the Bible) vastly different levels of reward in heaven.
For those of us that can't quote scripture, where does it say that?
I thought you were either in or out.
hasbeen99
02-12-04, 12:56 PM
For those of us that can't quote scripture, where does it say that?
Matthew 25:14-30 (the parable of the talents) (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NIV&passage=Matt+25%3A14-30)
I thought you were either in or out.
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'" --Matthew 7:21-23, NIV
barry49s
02-12-04, 05:14 PM
I've been told I have talents but I don't think any of them will get me into heaven. :beer: :argue: :feedme: :vfingers: :banana:
hasbeen99
02-12-04, 07:50 PM
I've been told I have talents but I don't think any of them will get me into heaven. :beer: :argue: :feedme: :vfingers: :banana:
Actually you might be surprised. Some of those talents might be rewarded in heaven if used properly. :)
Chief Tony
03-05-04, 03:51 PM
Atheists and agnostics.
Trust me,when bullets are flying over your head and you know that they are meant to kill you... there are neither.
BigVito
03-05-04, 04:17 PM
Atheists and agnostics.
Trust me,when bullets are flying over your head and you know that they are meant to kill you... there are neither.You are probably right. Fear does cause people to believe things that aren't true in many other instances, too.
:)
vBulletin® v3.8.1, Copyright ©2000-2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.