Do atheists have souls?

[slydevl]

I personally don't think a soul is something you can turn down. What do you think?

[BigVito]

I personally don't think a soul is something you can turn down. What do you think? To put into a logical form that you seem to like:

1. All humans have souls.
2. Atheists are human.
3. Atheists have souls.

If the first statement is true, then statement 3 has to be true.
Now if the first statement is false and only some humans have souls, then statement 3 can not logically be assumed to be true. However, if statement 1 is false, then statement 3 is also false.

Personally, I think that no one has a "soul" as it is popularly defined by mainstream religion.

[slydevl]

To put into a logical form that you seem to like:

1. All humans have souls.
2. Atheists are human.
3. Atheists have souls.

If the first statement is true, then statement 3 has to be true.
Now if the first statement is false and only some humans have souls, then statement 3 can not logically be assumed to be true. However, if statement 1 is false, then statement 3 is also false.

Personally, I think that no one has a "soul" as it is popularly defined by mainstream religion.

Is statement 2 not debatable?

[hasbeen99]

You want me to delete this thread, too, Sly?

[slydevl]

You want me to delete this thread, too, Sly?

Go ahead....give more evidence to those that say Christians don't have a sense of humor

[BigVito]

Is statement 2 not debatable?Sly, I believe that "all humans are human" is debatable.

If one believes that all humans have souls, which seems to be a cornerstone of Christian thought, then yes, atheists would have to have souls.

[BigVito]

You want me to delete this thread, too, Sly?HB, for what it's worth, I didn't take it as an insult. Just Sly being Sly.

Of course, there is a history of denying that others "have a soul" being used as an excuse for some of the harshest crimes of organized religion, but that ain't my schtick to use.

[flyfisher]

Of course atheist's have souls. They just need to be saved.

[hasbeen99]

HB, for what it's worth, I didn't take it as an insult. Just Sly being Sly.

Of course, there is a history of denying that others "have a soul" being used as an excuse for some of the harshest crimes of organized religion, but that ain't my schtick to use.

You missed his earlier post asking if Miss tery had a soul. Someone who's supposedly as well educated in theology as Sly knows better. He was taking a shot at her, and I deleted it. This is looking an awful lot like a veiled attempt to do the same thing, hence the warning.

[BigVito]

You missed his earlier post asking if Miss tery had a soul. Someone who's supposedly as well educated in theology as Sly knows better. He was taking a shot at her, and I deleted it. This is looking an awful lot like a veiled attempt to do the same thing, hence the warning.Understood.

I do think it could be seen as a legitimate question in some regards, though. If one professes to NOT believe in the supernatural, it could easily be assumed that same person would believe that he/she has no soul.

I do not believe that I have a "soul" or "spirit" that would exist independently of my physical body. My humanity is made up of my mind, my conciousness, and my ability to reason and relate.

The question could be seen as a "shot" but I hope I've illustrated that it could also have some validity.

[hasbeen99]

Go ahead....give more evidence to those that say Christians don't have a sense of humor

Taking shots at people who don't believe as we do is not a sense of humor. It's mean, and it's not Christlike.

[slydevl]

Taking shots at people who don't believe as we do is not a sense of humor. It's mean, and it's not Christlike.

If you took away every post I have ever made on this board I would see how you could think that. I have a history of irreverent posts aimed at poking good spirited fun at people. I am sorry you are not capable of understanding that.

[hasbeen99]

If you took away every post I have ever made on this board I would see how you could think that. I have a history of irreverent posts aimed at poking good spirited fun at people. I am sorry you are not capable of understanding that.

Oh, I am. But it's widely known that Miss tery is extremely sensitive to Christians in particular taking shots at her. Some may be deserved, some may not be. That's not really my concern.

What is my concern, however, is that in this forum, sniping isn't tolerated -- whether the intention is humorous or malicious. I stated the reason for it in the "No Sniping Zone" thread, and Larry backed me up on it. I want Miss tery to feel welcome here, just like I want Ecilam, Lushboobs, Lj4three, and Builder to feel welcome here. They've all taken shots from Christians out in the world. I can't do anything about that out in the world, but I can here. I want to show them that not all Christians are about judging and ridiculing them. That's what my avatar and title are all about.

If you would've just started this thread without calling out Miss tery first, I wouldn't have said anything about it because like Big Vito pointed out, the question is legitimate for non-Christians.

[slydevl]

Oh, I am. But it's widely known that Miss tery is extremely sensitive to Christians in particular taking shots at her. Some may be deserved, some may not be. That's not really my concern.

What is my concern, however, is that in this forum, sniping isn't tolerated -- whether the intention is humorous or malicious. I stated the reason for it in the "No Sniping Zone" thread, and Larry backed me up on it. I want Miss tery to feel welcome here, just like I want Ecilam, Lushboobs, Lj4three, and Builder to feel welcome here. They've all taken shots from Christians out in the world. I can't do anything about that out in the world, but I can here. I want to show them that not all Christians are about judging and ridiculing them. That's what my avatar and title are all about.

If you would've just started this thread without calling out Miss tery first, I wouldn't have said anything about it because like Big Vito pointed out, the question is legitimate for non-Christians.

Why didn't you include any Christians in your list? You think non-Christians are the only ones who have taken shots? I've been called ignorant or backwards by Miss_Tery and other liberals more times than I can count.

[hasbeen99]

Why didn't you include any Christians in your list? You think non-Christians are the only ones who have taken shots? I've been called ignorant or backwards by Miss_Tery and other liberals more times than I can count.

I've taken a few, too. And if she (or anyone else) take a shot at you, I'll delete that as well. I'm not playing favorites, Sly.

So far, neither she nor anyone else on that list has taken any shots at Christians, or at Christianity. Miss tery in particular has shown remarkable restraint in this forum, and I appreciate and respect that.

I can't control what happens or what has happened in R&R, and I wouldn't even want to try. But Larry and I agree, this forum is different. It has to be in order for it to work.

[builder]

Taking shots at people who don't believe as we do is not a sense of humor. It's mean, and it's not Christlike.


That's Sly in a nutshell. Not Keith though. Keith is a nice guy.

As for the soul thing, the human soul can take many forms. For me, my soul is a combination of all the energies found inside my body. It's the electromagnetic field that I walk around in all day. My aura. For others, it's something intangible that can only be used after you die.

[slydevl]

That's Sly in a nutshell. Not Keith though. Keith is a nice guy.

As for the soul thing, the human soul can take many forms. For me, my soul is a combination of all the energies found inside my body. It's the electromagnetic field that I walk around in all day. My aura. For others, it's something intangible that can only be used after you die.

Who is this "Keith" of which you speak?

[TimTam]

Who is this "Keith" of which you speak?the boy in his av

[slydevl]

Taking shots at people who don't believe as we do is not a sense of humor. It's mean, and it's not Christlike.

“It’s easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of heaven!”

“Take the log out of your own eye before you worry about the splinter in someone else’s eye!”

[builder]

are we judging not lest ourselves be judged? damn.

And Sly, I think the King James version had something to do with a mote and a splinter. Not a log. I've been judged.

[slydevl]

are we judging not lest ourselves be judged? damn.

And Sly, I think the King James version had something to do with a mote and a splinter. Not a log. I've been judged.

My point was Christ took humorous shots at people often in the Gospels.

"It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

[hasbeen99]

“It’s easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of heaven!”

I don't understand the relevance of that verse to this discussion. :thinking:


“Take the log out of your own eye before you worry about the splinter in someone else’s eye!”

I apologize for coming across as superior, Sly. That was not my intent. I definitely have my logs and my thorns that I have to deal with. I see this role as moderator is presenting a new one I'm going to have to be very careful with.

I did not say what I said to question your faith. Who am I to do so? But I do maintain that taking humor at the expense of others -- especially those who have been long ridiculed by other Christians -- is not Christlike . If you'd like to debate that, we can.

[hasbeen99]

My point was Christ took humorous shots at people often in the Gospels.

"It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

Do you really think that comment made toward the Gentile woman begging for healing for her daughter was a joke? If so, I respectfully disagree. :)

[slydevl]

I don't understand the relevance of that verse to this discussion. :thinking:

I didn't post either of those about you hasbeens. I posted them to illustrate that rebuke -- humorous, gently, and not so gentle -- was a cornerstone of Christ's ministry.

[slydevl]

Do you really think that comment made toward the Gentile woman begging for healing for her daughter was a joke? If so, I respectfully disagree. :)

I read it as a humorous rebuke to his apostles. Calling a person a dog was a huge insult in Christ's day and that statement far exceeded was was required under the circumstances.

[hasbeen99]

I read it as a humorous rebuke to his apostles. Calling a person a dog was a huge insult in Christ's day and that statement far exceeded was was required under the circumstances.

Okay, I see where you're coming from now. I still disagree on that verse, but I'd agree on the verse that cites Jesus telling the apostles not to cast pearls before swine. Now that's a shot.

[slydevl]

Okay, I see where you're coming from now. I still disagree on that verse, but I'd agree on the verse that cites Jesus telling the apostles not to cast pearls before swine. Now that's a shot.

i look at that vs like this:

The apostles didn't think the gentile woman or her daughter were worthly of Jesus's time. In his quote he is the bread and the gentile woman's daughter the dog. A huge exaggeration IMO, that i think served to rebuke the apostles for their trying to deny someone access to Christ. I also think Christ may have been making a double entendre in that he used dogs plural and may have also been comparing them to the apostles.

[hasbeen99]

i look at that vs like this:

The apostles didn't think the gentile woman or her daughter were worthly of Jesus's time. In his quote he is the bread and the gentile woman's daughter the dog. A huge exaggeration IMO, that i think served to rebuke the apostles for their trying to deny someone access to Christ. I also think Christ may have been making a double entendre in that he used dogs plural and may have also been comparing them to the apostles.

Wow. I never looked at it that way, but it definitely fits the character of the apostles. To be honest, that exchange has always stuck in my craw, but Imma have to take another hard look at it -- I think you're right. I'll post later on this...

[Rob]

“It’s easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of heaven!”



Actually the "Eye of a needle" refers to small gates in the walls of cities during that time. A rich man would have to unload his camel and walk it through with great difficulty. Its not as impossible as it sounds thinking about a sewing needle.

http://atp-corp.com/Story%20of.html

[FreakOnA_Leash]

Of course atheist's have souls. They just need to be saved.

Saved from what?

[hasbeen99]

Sly has a point. In the past I have questioned the intelligence those who hold religious beliefs. However I have not directed that ridicule at a particular individual. How does that fit into the moderators concept of this forum?

I'd rather not see an assertion like that made out of spite. I let it go in the "Religion" thread, so I suppose I've established a bit of a precedent.

I think it's going to boil down to a judgment call for each occurrance. If it's obviously a flame, it'll be edited or deleted whether it's directed at one or many. If there's some question, I'll question it and warn if necessary. I'm going to be a lot more lenient on older threads that were started in other forums before this forum was created, because as Big Vito pointed out, the rules are different outside this forum. Any editing I do will not be at the expense of the value of the thread itself.

[hasbeen99]

Saved from what?

God's judgment.

[BigVito]

I'd rather not see an assertion like that made out of spite. I let it go in the "Religion" thread, so I suppose I've established a bit of a precedent.

I think it's going to boil down to a judgment call for each occurrance. If it's obviously a flame, it'll be edited or deleted whether it's directed at one or many. If there's some question, I'll question it and warn if necessary. I'm going to be a lot more lenient on older threads that were started in other forums before this forum was created, because as Big Vito pointed out, the rules are different outside this forum. Any editing I do will not be at the expense of the value of the thread itself.:xyzthumbs

[FreakOnA_Leash]

God's judgment.

i would rather be judged by someone I know and can get constructive critisism from.

[hasbeen99]

i would rather be judged by someone I know and can get constructive critisism from.

I don't know that anyone who truly knows himself ever wants to be judged by anyone or anything but himself. Would you agree?

[Village Idiot]

Actually the "Eye of a needle" refers to small gates in the walls of cities during that time. A rich man would have to unload his camel and walk it through with great difficulty. Its not as impossible as it sounds thinking about a sewing needle. :applause:

[builder]

To answer the original topic of this thread, (which I already did in the religion thread), my response is no, because I do not believe in the existance of any sort of consciousness which carries on after the death of the body.


And even here, we disagree. I think that we do go on. We go on in another form until the proper circumstances brings us back to the earth again.

[Guest]

To put into a logical form that you seem to like:

1. All humans have souls.
2. Atheists are human.
3. Atheists have souls.

If the first statement is true, then statement 3 has to be true.
Now if the first statement is false and only some humans have souls, then statement 3 can not logically be assumed to be true. However, if statement 1 is false, then statement 3 is also false.

Personally, I think that no one has a "soul" as it is popularly defined by mainstream religion.

You must have passes Intro to Philosophy with flying colors...you just plagerised the first two chapters.

[Guest]

Not plagarized, paraphrased. :)

aced spelling too....I see....

[FreakOnA_Leash]

I don't know that anyone who truly knows himself ever wants to be judged by anyone or anything but himself. Would you agree?

Yes and no. I would like to know my faults in others eyes. I may not like what they have to say, but it could make me a better person in the long run. However, if I have to be dead to be judged, or have my final judgement....isn't that a bit late?

[hasbeen99]

Yes and no. I would like to know my faults in others eyes. I may not like what they have to say, but it could make me a better person in the long run. However, if I have to be dead to be judged, or have my final judgement....isn't that a bit late?

It's a bit late to make any changes, yes. Judgment Day in the Christian belief system is more of a final evaluation than anything else -- an accounting of all things good and bad as defined by God.

[VOR]

I personally don't think a soul is something you can turn down. What do you think?

I think really all you can do is unleash the horn section and if you got soul it'll show.

[magnus]

I think really all you can do is unleash the horn section and if you got soul it'll show.
amen to that.