View Full Version : Whose Choice is it?
At conversion or when accepting Christ, Does God choose us or do we choose God?
slydevl
03-30-04, 03:59 PM
At conversion or when accepting Christ, Does God choose us or do we choose God?
God chooses us well before conversion, so I would say it is more us accepting that choice.
hasbeen99
03-30-04, 04:12 PM
I agree. God chose us from the moment He created us. I should imagine it's much like the unconditional love a parent has for his or her newborn child. Later on, as the child becomes aware, he or she chooses to love the parent back, but this usually does not sway the parent from continuing to love the child.
Superfluous_Nut
03-30-04, 04:32 PM
is it really a choice if god chooses without discrimination?
hasbeen99
03-30-04, 05:10 PM
is it really a choice if god chooses without discrimination?
On whose part?
vpkozel
03-30-04, 05:13 PM
We choose. God loves us enough to let us ignore him for most of our days and then if we choose him - even at the very end. He takes us back.
There is no greater love.
Superfluous_Nut
03-30-04, 05:45 PM
On whose part?
god's. i think you'd have to say that we choose god rather than god chooses us. if you believe that he chose us all, then there's really not a choice on his part.
El Bastardo
03-30-04, 05:47 PM
Who's god? Krishna...allah...the christian god....
hasbeen99
03-30-04, 05:52 PM
god's. i think you'd have to say that we choose god rather than god chooses us. if you believe that he chose us all, then there's really not a choice on his part.
Sure there is. He could choose only some of us (which is a theory that many Christians and Jews believe in, BTW), or He could choose none of us. I heard a story on the radio this morning about a teenage girl who gave birth to a baby on her patio, put the baby in a box and threw him in a landfill to die. She chose not to accept that baby.
hasbeen99
03-30-04, 05:55 PM
Who's god? Krishna...allah...the christian god....
I'm pretty sure Rob is referring to the Christian God. Although I hope that we'll get to explore this question in the Koran thread.
Superfluous_Nut
03-30-04, 06:57 PM
Sure there is. He could choose only some of us (which is a theory that many Christians and Jews believe in, BTW), or He could choose none of us. I heard a story on the radio this morning about a teenage girl who gave birth to a baby on her patio, put the baby in a box and threw him in a landfill to die. She chose not to accept that baby.
you said he already chose us all, tho. until god denies somebody's choice, i don't see how his choice is anything but a rubber stamp -- not really a choice at all.
now if you believe that he only choses certain people, then sure. but you said he chooses us all, which seems contrary to an actual choice in a sense.
hasbeen99
03-30-04, 07:35 PM
you said he already chose us all, tho. until god denies somebody's choice, i don't see how his choice is anything but a rubber stamp -- not really a choice at all.
now if you believe that he only choses certain people, then sure. but you said he chooses us all, which seems contrary to an actual choice in a sense.
Okay, I see your point now. If God chooses everyone, then everyone goes to be with Him, and we don't have any choice in the matter. Is that right?
If it is, then the answer is that there is a point in time when God will rescind His acceptance to those who have not chosen Him in some way, shape or form. The Bible calls it Judgment Day. So far, the Qur'an refers to a similar event, but I haven't read far enough into it yet to know the details.
FreakOnA_Leash
03-30-04, 07:47 PM
Okay, I see your point now. If God chooses everyone, then everyone goes to be with Him, and we don't have any choice in the matter. Is that right?
If it is, then the answer is that there is a point in time when God will rescind His acceptance to those who have not chosen Him in some way, shape or form. The Bible calls it Judgment Day. So far, the Qur'an refers to a similar event, but I haven't read far enough into it yet to know the details.
I think he is trying to say there is no choice on God's part, because you stated he has already made the choice in choosing us all. If that is the case he has no more choices to make. It is just a done deal.
Superfluous_Nut
03-30-04, 07:58 PM
yes, to both of the above posts. that was the point i was trying to make. if god basically said "it's up to you" then he's rescinded his choice. if he chose all of us but with only if we agree, that's essentially the same thing as giving us the choice.
i didn't know it was a limited time offer. that's interesting.
I was thinking about the Christian God when I posted this question. I agree with Hasbeens that it will be interesting to ponder it in respect to other beliefs.
I have know several people who became Christians and devout believers who really weren't seeking Christ or looking to change. One was on a street corner when it happened. He claims God came to him in such a way that he would have been nuts to say no. Paul's conversion as described in the bible would sort of fit this description. Being blinded on a road from meeting Jesus would do that to a person.
He created all of us and being omnipotent knows who will accept salvation and who won't. Why would He create people who He knows will not accept His free gift of salvation?
hasbeen99
03-30-04, 08:17 PM
yes, to both of the above posts. that was the point i was trying to make. if god basically said "it's up to you" then he's rescinded his choice. if he chose all of us but with only if we agree, that's essentially the same thing as giving us the choice.
There's a difference, though, between saying, "It's up to you guys -- I don't care," and "I want you. Do you want to be with Me?"
Think of it this way -- marriages happen because two people choose to spend the rest of their lives together. A relationship with God is not very different. God courts us each individually -- all 6 billion of us. Now it is up to us to say, "I do."
i didn't know it was a limited time offer. that's interesting.
It's limited in 2 ways. The first is by death. If you haven't said, "I do," by the time you stop breathing, you get to be 'single' forever. The other way is when Jesus returns. For more discussion on that topic, check out this thread (http://www.thisboardrocks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57625).
Does it matter?
Probably not. Just something to think about.
Superfluous_Nut
03-31-04, 06:00 AM
Does it matter?
does anything here?
WilliamJ
03-31-04, 07:23 AM
We choose. God loves us enough to let us ignore him for most of our days and then if we choose him - even at the very end. He takes us back.
There is no greater love.
this ties into the free will, but sly is also correct in that god starts pointing stuff out to us but he allows us to choose Him.
hasbeen99
03-31-04, 02:04 PM
does anything here?
To many, it does. :)
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