Nineteen year old legion players

[MOOSE]

I merged this thread with the current one



With a couple years of legion baseball with nineteen year old players under our belt, I was wondering if anyone felt like it was a mistake to increase the age to nineteen. I'm sure the overall quality of teams has increased. The chance for quality young players to make the team has really decreased. You see a few here and there but not many. Just my opinion but i liked it better without all the teams loaded with college players. I have been following legion baseball for over 20 years fairly closely and have had only one family member involved 18 yrs ago so i'm just a fan. Like to hear some of your opinions.

[Intimidator Coach]

I personally like it. I dont think there are very many kids ready to play 40 or 50 games in nearly as many days that are under 16 or 17.
Since american legion began you had younger kids always sitting on the bench for a year or 2. Now they have Jr. Legion to help develop some of the younger kids . By the time they are Juniors or Seniors in HS they will be ready to play and will have done more than ride the bench or pinch run or hit once a week or so...

The rule also helps late blossoming seniors to get looked at by college scouts.

[SouthPawDad]

Not all Legion Post's can afford to field a Junior legion team and the kids who can't participate on a travel (AAU/USSSA) are left out or are destined to play with rec teams. Most of the Junior Legion teams I've watched also have someone's "daddy" as a coach and we all know the problems there.

Secondly, many Posts cannot even field a team without the freshman and sophomore players on the roster.

Thirdly, I don't understand why (my opinion here) players who have just finished a season of college baseball would want to play against "high school" kids. Where's the lesson's to be learned by playing younger competition? Maybe the Legion should consider a College Division, and sponsor teams ages 18-21 (freshmen-seniors).

[Papabear]

Legion dosn't need a college division, as there are summer wood bat leagues for college players. I agree with you Southpaw, college players need to be hitting college pitching, and college pitchers need to be throwing to college hitters.

[tj21]

I also agree that college-age players need to be playing against college-age competition. American Legion needs to go back to 18 & under...

[steelballs]

College players in legion baseball is fair game, because most of the college freshman who come back need to be playing everyday, instead of in a wooden bat league sitting the bench. They bring leadership and character to a team. They help the younger guys along and make competition that much better. They help the game and gives them a chance to improve, plus most guys playing legion ball eventually play college.

[wossa]

College players in legion baseball is fair game, because most of the college freshman who come back need to be playing everyday, instead of in a wooden bat league sitting the bench. They bring leadership and character to a team. They help the younger guys along and make competition that much better. They help the game and gives them a chance to improve, plus most guys playing legion ball eventually play college.

Thats why JK Whited stepped down from the Hi Toms to play on the Greensboro legion team. He wasn't getting enough playing time with the Hi Toms.

[Papabear]

You've raised a good point as far as playing where they'll get the most playing time. Can't argue with that at all. But if playing time is a consideration, wonder why so many seniors sign with D1 schools, knowing there's a very good chance they won't play for a couple of years, if they end up playing at all?

[Village Idiot]

College players in legion baseball is fair game, because most of the college freshman who come back need to be playing everyday, instead of in a wooden bat league sitting the bench. They bring leadership and character to a team. They help the younger guys along and make competition that much better. They help the game and gives them a chance to improve, plus most guys playing legion ball eventually play college.As the parent of a 17 year old first year legion player.........the competition forced my son take his game to a higher level. One of the college players on his team called him out a few times on his work habits and other things. He needed that. I cant really say about the effect on the college players though.

[SouthPawDad]

If the college players "pushing" or challenging the high school players is true, then why wouldn't older college players in the wood bat leagues, challenge the younger college player to elevate their game?

I've always thought that "playing up" was better for an athlete. Don't play down to the competition, unless you just want to be the "big fish in a little pond".

[gonzo]

A point that seems to be missed so far in this thread is a lack of opportunity to play on a wood bat team. And as far as the college hitters facing legion pitchers, a good many of the college players coming back are pitchers, so you are facing college pitchers. I got to see 3 years of 18 and 1 year of 19 and I like it. Seeing someone like Chris Mason or Robert Woodard throw as a 19 y/o seems like some overkill, but there are a good many college pitchers who need the regular work that legion will give them. If you are 19, do you want to throw 2-3 innings a week, maybe a few more, OR be guaranteed 6-9 innings every 5-6 days? JMHO.

[Braves]

I like it too, Gonzo. And if it increases the level of play....nothing wrong with that.

[AtlWood]

There are also any number of kids who don't play at college because they are at a given school for reasons other than baseball. Frankly, most of them could play somewhere but had/have a different set of priorities.

In addition, because they are still eligible to play, some were young and not as developed physically for their academic grade, i.e., they weren't held back a grade. The 19 age gives all these guys a last chance to play competitively in front of a sometimes hostile crowd, to get the adrenalin pumping. It gives them an opportunity they wouldn't otherwise have... so I'm in favor of it. :xyzthumbs

[Intimidator Coach]

the general rule of thumb would be that a 14, 15 ,or a 16 year isnt going to get very much playing time at the legion level . I have seen the younger ones waste 2 years sitting on the bench, thinking they would get better by the practices or get into the blo-out games.the practices arent what you think in most cases. Batting practice and a round or 2 of infield / outfieldis about it. not to much time for teaching . Also in legion ball a team can score runs in a hurry and most coach's will stay with starters for most of the game.
They are paid positions ya know.
My opinion is to stay with your AAU,USSSA, or whatever league you can until you have reached 17... there are alot of good 15,16,17,18 and under programs to play in . Most cases at a pretty good cost.

If you have a son thats superior to others at his age i'm pretty sure someone will notify you or you could spend the week or 2 before legion season begins and try-out.

I'm all for the 19yo playing . And the ones that are opposed to it... wait till your son turns 19 and see if your not all for it too.

[cougardad]

I personally think that having a 19 year old playing legion ball is fine because of the additional playing time they (19 year olds) will get. However, I understand from our legion coach that beginning with the 2006 legion season, the age requirements will revert back to 18 and younger. This was voted on last spring (some call it the Cherryville ruling) and gave a two year period before being implemented. Anyone else heard about this?

[greenballz]

i promise you there are some damn good pitchers in legion.....zach ward....if that isnt college comp pitching i dont know what is

[Papabear]

I thought Ward played in the Cape Cod league this summer?

[Braves]

I thought Ward played in the Cape Cod league this summer?

I did too.....for the Chatham A's...maybe it's a different Zach Ward they are speaking about

[rcbbfan]

Zach Ward did play in the Cape THIS year, but played for the Kannapolis Legion team last year after his freshman year at G-W. He is a junior this fall.

[homerun4]

Zach Ward did play in the Cape THIS year, but played for the Kannapolis Legion team last year after his freshman year at G-W. He is a junior this fall.


american legion baseball is still the best amateur baseball in this area to watch bar none.

[Prepster]

Close, Braves! :laugh1:

Zach Ward had an outstanding summer this year playing for the Harwich Mariners of the Cape Cod League. His outstanding performance won him a spot in "Baseball America's" list of "Top 30 Prospects from the Cape Cod League." Over 42.2 innings, his ERA was only 1.05. He struck out 57 and walked only 22.

[rcbbfan]

american legion baseball is still the best amateur baseball in this area to watch bar none.

I agree with you 100%. The key phrase here though is, "to watch". My son played 4 summers of legion and he wouldn't trade those summers for all the showcase ball that could be played. Why would he say that......especially when he also played showcase ball in the fall. Simple.......there is no "team" in showcase ball, at least not like legion. In legion ball all the players are bonded together by 1 commom goal....win a state championship or maybe a WS. The best players are put on the field almost every night with that goal in mind. Your best pitchers are put on the mound to go as long as they can in an effort to give the team it's best chance of winning. In showcase ball....well.....it's name actually pretty much defines it. Not that it's a bad thing, but it is certainly different. It's about getting seen by that one perfect match college recruiter that will help further one's opportunities to play baseball at the next level. So there is a little more individualism involved with showcase ball.

The other thing I heard from him that he didn't like about showcase ball was "they don't play to win". Now I suppose that there may be exceptions to this but the team he played on was that way. It was more important to get all the players in the game than it was to win. In showcase ball that's the way it should be, but it just wasn't his style. He would tell me "If you don't play to win, why play at all". One of his favorite quotes was,"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing". As you can imagine, it took a lot of pushing to get him to play what little showcase ball he played and it was equally difficult to keep him playing, especially after he verbally comitted in Sept.

In closing, there is a place for both legion and showcase baseball, each player has to decide what is more important to him. Or do both as the time allows. As far as watching a game.....this fan will take legion ball over showcase ball anytime.

[Braves]

I dunno rc...I can think of many talented, team oriented summer and fall showcase teams that would take issue with your characterization of their teams. On Deck O's, Megastars, Diamond Devils to name a few. These teams play every game to win, but more importantly they play to develop the skills of their players.

[homerun4]

Legion baseball is no doubt the best to play and watch.Read the salisbury paper they had a real good article about the shortstop from kannapolis who had given up playing legion ball until this summer he said it was dissapointing to win all of those showcase tournaments look up in the stands and see a few parents and no fans. He said showcase is more individual. so don't forget that baseball is a team sport .so that 1 player that wants looked at by scouts needs to know it takes 8 more to go with him.

[Braves]

Most players want to play Legion, but many college calibre don't until their senior season. I'm sure Brett liked seeing "real" fans at the Legion games, but I also bet he didn't mind going to those showcases and looking out at the stands and seeing 500+ scouts attending i.e. Perfect Games WWBA Championship in Jupiter....different atmospheres but both pretty exciting

[tj21]

Its possible for young players to play both legion ball and do showcases too. You just have to do it according to legion rules, as we've already discussed on another recent issue.

The problem is that some communities don't support the local legion teams enough, and/or for whatever reason legion ball simply isn't popular enough in certain areas so the better ballplayers don't even consider playing legion ball, they go out and try to get on a traveling team to keep playing. And its also possible that (in popular legion communities) you have many excellent legion players that simply don't have the contacts or information to get involved in showcase ball.

Neither is better than the other,,, theres room for both. Each gives you different rewards.

[post51fan]

younger players can play jr legion

[UK7Dook3]

This debate is old news now since the AL season is over today...but my son played 4 years of Legion & just finished his first year of Wood Bat Collegiate ball. His experience was extremely successful & fulfilling. His team finished 2nd in his league & won 2 tournaments.

But there is no comparison between Legion & Wood bat. Yes...Wood bat is far more talented. But Legion ball is by far more fun & exciting & fulfilling. You are playing with friends & carrying the community banner. Wood bat is full of long trips & staying away from home (for most players). And Wood bat is all about self improvement, which is a good thing...But 'team' is a wonderful word.

So I say let the freshmen college players (19 & under) come home & enjoy one more summer eating Mom's cooking & renewing friendships & playing for the hometown team. It's good for the kid...good for Legion ball...good for younger players who aspire to play at the next level...& good for the fans. Everyone wins.

[roc0720]

I thought Ward played in the Cape Cod league this summer?

Ward was drafted to the reds and just got traded yesterday to the Twins organization.

[yankees]

"they don't play to win".
If what RCBBFAN means is they don't bunt runners over often, then I agree with him. Most showcase team coaches understand that coaches or scouts want to see the batters taking hacks, hence that team might lose an opportunity to put a runner in scoring position.

RCBBFAN, I think Braves is correct in saying I can think of many talented, team oriented summer and fall showcase teams that would take issue with your characterization of their teams. On Deck O's, Megastars, Diamond Devils to name a few. These teams play every game to win, but more importantly they play to develop the skills of their players.

I can only speak for the Copperhead showcase teams, and it is true that they seldom bunted - and when they did often it was not called, it happened to be a batters decision based on the depth of fielders, etc. that led them to try to bunt for a hit.

[TROCK]

I personally think that having a 19 year old playing legion ball is fine because of the additional playing time they (19 year olds) will get. However, I understand from our legion coach that beginning with the 2006 legion season, the age requirements will revert back to 18 and younger. This was voted on last spring (some call it the Cherryville ruling) and gave a two year period before being implemented. Anyone else heard about this?
(SOME CALL IT THE CHERRYVILLE RULING)
Can you explain that RULING!

[countryboy17]

I would like to see the age limit moved back to 18.
This would allow high school jrs and srs more opportunity to display their skills for college and pro scouts. IMO, the college frosh have landed their deals and have moved on, so it's time to for the new blood to
come in and show what they can do.

What are your thoughts?


:smack:
http://thisboardrocks.com/forum/images/misc/progress.gif

[Big Mark]

This thread is SO totally not what i thought it was :( :( :( :(

:sneaks back to RnR:

[reporter]

I like it the way it is. This new age bunch worry so much about getting their kids seen by someone and forget it is all about playing and winning a ballgame. I like having the best players coming back to play one more time. If a kid is good enough to play in college he will have already been found anyway

[BigDipofCope]

Here's the way I see it... The 19 yr. olds that are "great" college baseball players are not going to play Legion ball after their freshmen year. They are going to play in a college wood bat league. Also, with alot of kids going to showcase baseball, I think legion needs the 19 year olds that maybe were redshirted or don't even play college baseball, but are good leaders.

[tj21]

I have been against the 19 year old rule in the past, but now I'm starting to get used to it, especially when I see these college freshmen get one more chance to come home and play with the locals, thats just good for the communities and only builds more memories that these young men will carry with them forever.

I do agree the 19 year olds have probably knocked out the younger players on many legion teams,,,, this is why the Junior Legion League was formed, to provide a place for the younger players.

And BigDip,,,, I know what your saying about the best college freshman will probably play wooden bat and not legion,,, but thats not always the case. That decision CLEARLY depends on what community you live in, and how strong the legion ties are where you live. Kannapolis, Rowan, Caldwell, Shelby kids return home to play that final year of legion ball all the time. One specific player that I know even made that a part of his deal when he signed to play college ball, that his college coach will allow him to come back home and play legion ball that last year. And knowing how important legion ball was to that kid in his hometown, that specific college coach agreed. But your' right, many cases they'll do wooden bat, just not all.

[countryboy17]

I like it the way it is. This new age bunch worry so much about getting their kids seen by someone and forget it is all about playing and winning a ballgame. I like having the best players coming back to play one more time. If a kid is good enough to play in college he will have already been found anyway

Actually the age limit used to be 18 and was changed sometime after I played. So I don't understand what you mean about the new age bunch. As far as being concerned about getting seen, I believe if you are lucky and good enough they will find you no matter where you play. One other thing, maybe just maybe this is why the "showcase" thing got so big. Legion ball is about building character, making lifelong friendships, working hard and winning takes care of it'self.
I believe it's more about just winning baseball games.

Big Dip:You make a good point and have opened my mind, not changed yet, but opened.